Blues low E thump

[Ken O]

An suggestions for practice to keep the thumb doing the rythmic thump in the Mississippi style blues?

I have been working at this for quite a while, and can get a couple notes out, but thats about it. The thumb wants to stop, when the fingers start picking.

I figure it will take time, but it doesnt seem to happen. Its teaching an old dog new tricks, but I refuse to think I cant do it.

Thanks, Ken

[walternewton]

I think a key to developing thumb independence is (perhaps paradoxically) not to think too much in the beginning about it and the fingers as playing separate roles.

Note that every beat (off beat, etc.) you play will be one of three things - a thumb note, finger note(s), or thumb and finger(s) "pinching" together - break things down slowly, measure by measure (e.g. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and =, for example, thumb-and-pinch-and-thumb-finger-pinch-and), and repeat them until you get them right - when you get a bit of a repertoire under your belt, the "independent" thumb doing its thing on autopilot will start to come.

[clinchriver]

Do you use a metronome when you practice?

[Ken O]

Originally Posted by walternewton

I think a key to developing thumb independence is (perhaps paradoxically) not to think too much in the beginning about it and the fingers as playing separate roles.

Note that every beat (off beat, etc.) you play will be one of three things - a thumb note, finger note(s), or thumb and finger(s) "pinching" together - break things down slowly, measure by measure (e.g. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and =, for example, thumb-and-pinch-and-thumb-finger-pinch-and), and repeat them until you get them right - when you get a bit of a repertoire under your belt, the "independent" thumb doing its thing on autopilot will start to come.

Thanks, I will try that.

[Ken O]

Originally Posted by clinchriver

Do you use a metronome when you practice?

No. I do tap my foot, it has no problem being independent.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ken O

An suggestions for practice to keep the thumb doing the rythmic thump in the Mississippi style blues?

I have been working at this for quite a while, and can get a couple notes out, but thats about it. The thumb wants to stop, when the fingers start picking.

I figure it will take time, but it doesnt seem to happen. Its teaching an old dog new tricks, but I refuse to think I cant do it.

Thanks, Ken

Hi Ken...

I teach fingerstyle guitar (for money).

This style you want to master requires thumb and finger separation, and thumb persistence no matter what's happening with the fingers. There are several key skills in play with this style. They are best learned one layer at a time.

• If you were taking lessons from me, you'd start playing quarter notes (in 4/4 time) with your thumb until you could keep the going steadily while chatting with me.
• Then we'd add a single finger playing just a single note on beat one (on the first beat), while at the same time the thumb was still playing all 4 beats on the beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd add a second beat while retaining the first one (beats one and three with the finger) while the thumb drummed away on every beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd begin exercises where you'd start moving that second note around to a different beat with the thumb still drumming; beats 1-2, or beats 1-4, or beats 2-3. Until you'd mastered each one we'd not add another.
• Once you mastered each of those, we'd add a third beat and master three notes at the same time the bass is playing all four beats.
• Then we'd start you playing simple open scales with your finger while the thumb drummed away.
• Then we'd begging playing things like Mary Had A Little Lamb to a thumb-drum.

What I just described is about a month's worth of exercises just to develop independence of thumb from fingers. At that point we would not even be worrying about songs yet.

Once you get to the point you can play a persistent beat with the thumb and then interject single notes of a simple familiar melody with your finger(s) at the same time, then you are underway.

This style is a discipline, not something that just rolls out of your head and becomes music.

[MrBJones]

Originally Posted by walternewton

I think a key to developing thumb independence is (perhaps paradoxically) not to think too much in the beginning about it and the fingers as playing separate roles.

Note that every beat (off beat, etc.) you play will be one of three things - a thumb note, finger note(s), or thumb and finger(s) "pinching" together - break things down slowly, measure by measure (e.g. 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and =, for example, thumb-and-pinch-and-thumb-finger-pinch-and), and repeat them until you get them right - when you get a bit of a repertoire under your belt, the "independent" thumb doing its thing on autopilot will start to come.

That worked for me. Think as the thumb as just another finger, doing its thing in conjunction with the others.

Also, play veeery slow. Whatever speed you think that is, cut it in half; 30 bpm might be about right. As you get it, increase the speed a tiny amount each time.

[Jim72]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Ken...

I teach fingerstyle guitar (for money).

This style you want to master requires thumb and finger separation, and thumb persistence no matter what's happening with the fingers. There are several key skills in play with this style. They are best learned one layer at a time.

• If you were taking lessons from me, you'd start playing quarter notes (in 4/4 time) with your thumb until you could keep the going steadily while chatting with me.
• Then we'd add a single finger playing just a single note on beat one (on the first beat), while at the same time the thumb was still playing all 4 beats on the beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd add a second beat while retaining the first one (beats one and three with the finger) while the thumb drummed away on every beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd begin exercises where you'd start moving that second note around to a different beat with the thumb still drumming; beats 1-2, or beats 1-4, or beats 2-3. Until you'd mastered each one we'd not add another.
• Once you mastered each of those, we'd add a third beat and master three notes at the same time the bass is playing all four beats.
• Then we'd start you playing simple open scales with your finger while the thumb drummed away.
• Then we'd begging playing things like Mary Had A Little Lamb to a thumb-drum.

What I just described is about a month's worth of exercises just to develop independence of thumb from fingers. At that point we would not even be worrying about songs yet.

Once you get to the point you can play a persistent beat with the thumb and then interject single notes of a simple familiar melody with your finger(s) at the same time, then you are underway.

This style is a discipline, not something that just rolls out of your head and becomes music.

Hi Larry,

I just bought Toby Walkers beginning fingerpicking and started it yesterday. I have only started with the thumb so far. The method you are recommending sounds like a great approach! I am going to use your approach, in combination with Toby's material, and see how it goes!

Thank you,

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Jim72

Hi Larry,

I just bought Toby Walkers beginning fingerpicking and started it yesterday. I have only started with the thumb so far. The method you are recommending sounds like a great approach! I am going to use your approach, in combination with Toby's material, and see how it goes!

Thank you,

Hi Jim...

Keep us posted.

I remember working through the process myself, and refined it in order to be able to teach it to students.

My fingerstyle started as simple patterned accompaniments, and then I started getting interested in Chord Melody play, and then I decided to add some Travis Picking…the thumb finger independence was a labor of love…it was as much systematic labor as it was love.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Think as the thumb as just another finger, doing its thing in conjunction with the others.

Good advise, because, the word 'thumb independence' throws a lot people off.

[stanron]

Ken O

You say you tap your foot. Typically people tap their foot on every beat. You also want to pick a bass note every beat. Get the two linked together in your mind and your thumb will always pick in time.

Then as walternewton pointed out all you do is pick with a finger at the same time as your thumb or in between thumb beats. Good luck.

[Ken O]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Ken...

I teach fingerstyle guitar (for money).

This style you want to master requires thumb and finger separation, and thumb persistence no matter what's happening with the fingers. There are several key skills in play with this style. They are best learned one layer at a time.

• If you were taking lessons from me, you'd start playing quarter notes (in 4/4 time) with your thumb until you could keep the going steadily while chatting with me.
• Then we'd add a single finger playing just a single note on beat one (on the first beat), while at the same time the thumb was still playing all 4 beats on the beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd add a second beat while retaining the first one (beats one and three with the finger) while the thumb drummed away on every beat.
• Once you mastered that we'd begin exercises where you'd start moving that second note around to a different beat with the thumb still drumming; beats 1-2, or beats 1-4, or beats 2-3. Until you'd mastered each one we'd not add another.
• Once you mastered each of those, we'd add a third beat and master three notes at the same time the bass is playing all four beats.
• Then we'd start you playing simple open scales with your finger while the thumb drummed away.
• Then we'd begging playing things like Mary Had A Little Lamb to a thumb-drum.

What I just described is about a month's worth of exercises just to develop independence of thumb from fingers. At that point we would not even be worrying about songs yet.

Once you get to the point you can play a persistent beat with the thumb and then interject single notes of a simple familiar melody with your finger(s) at the same time, then you are underway.

This style is a discipline, not something that just rolls out of your head and becomes music.

Thank you very much for that Larry! That will be my lesson plan until it works.

I know its not going to happen over night, nothing I have acomplished on the guitar came easy.

Thanks to all that contributed to the post, it all helps, and I'm sure I'm not the only one in this boat, you helped others also.
Ken

[Toby Walker]

Hey Ken,

Thumpin' the blues is right down my alley. I love showing folks this stuff. I also do it for a living but what the heck, there's too much snow and I have no place to go so here goes: I made a little video for you. Enjoy.

http://www.littletobywalker.com/thump.html

[Jim72]

Sweet lesson Toby! This forum is a great place to learn because of people like you and Larry!!

Thank you,

[Bern]

Toby, good video for Ken.
Just one off topic question, what kind of guitar is that on the left hanging on your wall ?