Outdoor Foolishness and SAR Abuse

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Draft Guitar

During a recent snow storm here in Virginia, Accuweather reported 3-6" of snow and never deviated from that amount. Where I live we got about 12 inches.

For a hiker who is experienced and enjoys hiking and camping in the snow, would it be unreasonable to trust the weather forecast from an outlet such as Accuweather?

Not saying that person shouldn't be rescued - that was the opposite situation....more snow than predicted.

This person was basically told to stay home and he didn't listen.

Big difference. He also went alone, which can be risky too.

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Not saying that person shouldn't be rescued - that was the opposite situation....more snow than predicted.

This person was basically told to stay home and he didn't listen.

Big difference. He also went alone, which can be risky too.

I would love to see the warning that told people to stay in their houses. I bet the warning was nothing more than "stay off the roads."

[fazool]

In college, I took a "Backpacking and Orienteering" class. It was very structured formal training etc. Because of scheduling we were to take our final exam two weeks before the end of classes.

The final exam was a group hike and weekend camping trip in a local state park with well marked trails.

We were to hike Friday and camp, hike again saturday and camp then hike back sunday.

I needed to work saturday night so my whole class and I hiked halfway back as a group to see me off. Then they turned back to continue their hike and I trudged out of the forest for miles alone. They were nice to accompany me halfway back to civilization.

We parked at point X......hiked to point Y....continued to point Z and camped
THe next morning the whole group together went back to point Y and we split up. I continued back to point X where we started. They reversed and went back to the camp at point Z

I could not get an "A" in the class since I didnt stay the whole weekend but a "B" was fine with me. And we still had two weeks of classes left to do.

Except we didnt.

Monday morning I got a call that classes were cancelled for a week.

It seems that my entire group, with our instructor got lost on their next day. The entire class and the instructor as gone for like 7 hours. There were no cell phones but they were seven hours late returning home. They just started making SAR plans with the State Police.

The instructor said everyone needed a week to rest.

I was quite satisfied with my B grade....even though I was the only one who didnt get lost lol (and dont even ask about the bear spray incident)

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by fazool

In college, I took a "Backpacking and Orienteering" class. It was very structured formal training etc. Because of scheduling we were to take our final exam two weeks before the end of classes.

The final exam was a group hike and weekend camping trip in a local state park with well marked trails.

We were to hike Friday and camp, hike again saturday and camp then hike back sunday.

I needed to work saturday night so my whole class and I hiked halfway back as a group to see me off. Then they turned back to continue their hike and I trudged out of the forest for miles alone. They were nice to accompany me halfway back to civilization.

We parked at point X......hiked to point Y....continued to point Z and camped
THe next morning the whole group together went back to point Y and we split up. I continued back to point X where we started. They reversed and went back to the camp at point Z

I could not get an "A" in the class since I didnt stay the whole weekend but a "B" was fine with me. And we still had two weeks of classes left to do.

Except we didnt.

Monday morning I got a call that classes were cancelled for a week.

It seems that my entire group, with our instructor got lost on their next day. The entire class and the instructor as gone for like 7 hours. There were no cell phones but they were seven hours late returning home. They just started making SAR plans with the State Police.

The instructor said everyone needed a week to rest.

I was quite satisfied with my B grade....even though I was the only one who didnt get lost lol (and dont even ask about the bear spray incident)

I wish I had the opportunity to take such a class!

When I was really young a friend asked me to accompany him on a Boy Scouts camp outing. We hiked to a beautiful riverside site where they started setting up camp. I decided to set up my site up a hill, away from the river, my friend decided to stay with the pack. That night a torrential downpour happened and the river flooded. There were several Boy Scouts that ended up being swept downriver still inside of their tents. Fortunately there were no drownings.

Right then and there I decided I would never joint the Boy Scouts.

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by RP

Volunteer, non-profit organizations still have expenses, both at the organizational and individual levels. Billing those who make foolish choices and require rescue as a result would help compensate those organizations and volunteers for out-of-pocket expenses and possibly deter others from making similar unwise choices...

Something tells me the hiker will be making a donation. That would be the right thing to do.

[FLRon]

Originally Posted by RP

I read the following article https://www.blueridgeoutdoors.com/go...eid=893edc6861 which reminded me of my long past days doing Search & Rescue. While there are many unforeseen reasons that folks may need assistance returning from the backwoods to civilization, the situation in the article appears to be a case of pure hubris on the part of the stranded hiker. Am I the only one who believes that if one travels into outdoor areas despite warnings to the contrary, SAR should not be responsible for risking the safety of their own people until conditions improve???

I feel the same way about people here who have days of advance notice that a major hurricane is bearing down on them but refuse to evacuate. Then you see videos of them on their rooftops crying for help! I’m sorry, I’m not so hard hearted as to want people to die, but neither am I so reckless as to send rescuers into life threatening situations all because someone was afraid their TV would be stolen if they evacuated!!

[RP]

Originally Posted by Draft Guitar

Also, I fail to see how the SAR team could have been in danger...

You really don't see how the conditions and situation described below could be dangerous to SAR personnel?

According to Haywood County Search & Rescue, they responded to a call reporting a stranded hiker at 10:15 a.m. that Sunday and headed up the Blue Ridge Parkway where “road conditions were treacherous with less than 100 feet of visibility and a wintry mix of sleet and snow falling.”

When the team arrived at the trailhead, they continued in a 4WD truck for about two miles, which was as far as conditions allowed.

“From there, they donned snowshoes and traveled on foot to get to the stranded hiker,” the Haywood County Search & Rescue said in a Facebook post.

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by RP

You really don't see how the conditions and situation described below could be dangerous to SAR personnel?

According to Haywood County Search & Rescue, they responded to a call reporting a stranded hiker at 10:15 a.m. that Sunday and headed up the Blue Ridge Parkway where “road conditions were treacherous with less than 100 feet of visibility and a wintry mix of sleet and snow falling.”

When the team arrived at the trailhead, they continued in a 4WD truck for about two miles, which was as far as conditions allowed.

“From there, they donned snowshoes and traveled on foot to get to the stranded hiker,” the Haywood County Search & Rescue said in a Facebook post.

Nope, I don't. I'm not on a SAR team and I do stuff like that frequently. Perspective perhaps, but that sounds like a training exercise. I'm not trying to discredit what they did, but if they won't do that, then what is the point of having SAR teams? After all, it is search and rescue, not search and recover.

[Mr. Paul]

Our county has multiple 14k foot peaks and a very active S&R organization. They will often outline the reasons someone has gotten in trouble but never, ever, a public word of judgement. Just part of the reason these guys and gals are such a special breed.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Draft Guitar

I would love to see the warning that told people to stay in their houses. I bet the warning was nothing more than "stay off the roads."

The article says the governor declared a state of emergency prior to the hiker setting out on his own.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Draft Guitar

Nope, I don't. I'm not on a SAR team and I do stuff like that frequently. Perspective perhaps, but that sounds like a training exercise. I'm not trying to discredit what they did, but if they won't do that, then what is the point of having SAR teams? After all, it is search and rescue, not search and recover.

You say that as if training exercises don't present a danger to participants. The following relates to the US Military, but shows that danger is inherent in training...

Across the Department of Defense, from 2006 to 2020, 5,605 service members were killed in training accidents. This represents 32% of all reported active-duty military deaths for that time period and is double the percentage of troops killed in action.

Every time that military and emergency personnel gather their gear and head out to an emergency situation, there's risk. Driving on treacherous icy roads with limited visibility and then walking on hiking trails covered by snow and ice presents dangers to rescue personnel which can be caused by both natural and accidental causes. The hiker in question determined that he needed help extricating himself the following morning despite walking out under his own steam. I'd love to know what was going through his mind that he ignored warnings by going on his overnight outing on Saturday and then felt that it was ok to solicit SAR personal to join his folly on the following morning...

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by fitness1

The article says the governor declared a state of emergency prior to the hiker setting out on his own.

Have you read it?

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by RP

You say that as if training exercises don't present a danger to participants. The following relates to the US Military, but shows that danger is inherent in training...

Across the Department of Defense, from 2006 to 2020, 5,605 service members were killed in training accidents. This represents 32% of all reported active-duty military deaths for that time period and is double the percentage of troops killed in action.

I don't understand your point. This is what a SAR team does. They signed up for it and accept that they will be in some sort of danger. This situation, with what I've read about it, did not involve danger significant enough to warrant not responding.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Draft Guitar

Have you read it?

Yes:

“This storm will bring significant impacts from snow, sleet and freezing rain in different parts of the state, with likely power outages and travel disruptions,” said Governor Cooper. “North Carolinians should pay close attention to their local weather forecast over the next few days, and make sure they are personally prepared before Saturday afternoon.”

And, anyone with any outdoors acumen would know it will be worse in the higher elevations.

Going into the wilderness knowing this alone is just plain not very smart, and caused a situation that could and should have been avoided.

I've done a whole lot of solo excursions into much more volatile environments than the Blue Ridge, and wouldn't have considered any of them with that kind of information beforehand.

[Draft Guitar]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Yes:

“This storm will bring significant impacts from snow, sleet and freezing rain in different parts of the state, with likely power outages and travel disruptions,” said Governor Cooper. “North Carolinians should pay close attention to their local weather forecast over the next few days, and make sure they are personally prepared before Saturday afternoon.”

And, anyone with any outdoors acumen would know it will be worse in the higher elevations.

Going into the wilderness knowing this alone is just plain not very smart, and caused a situation that could and should have been avoided.

I've done a whole lot of solo excursions into much more volatile environments than the Blue Ridge, and wouldn't have considered any of them with that kind of information beforehand.

There was no order to stay in his home. As I mentioned previously, it is primarily about staying off the roads so that the DOT can do their work.

People hike and camp in inclement weather. I've done it many times. We don't know this man's skill level, age, medical condition, etc... why are we trying to judge him? This was not an overly dangerous situation that the SAR team was in.