Covering Electric Guitar Riffs in an Acoustic Duo Using IRs

[jonfields45]

Inspired by James May's nice looking installation of a P90 into a J45 I tried to get to a similar place with an IR. I used this new IR last weekend at an outdoors farmers' market and found the hand feel while playing much improved. Maybe to the listener the difference is subtle, but I think the live reflections in my very quiet all concrete basement demo does not bring it out as well as outdoors with no sound reflection and the din of power generators. The rounder tone and extra sustain makes playing those licks easier for me.

This is a single take video demonstrating IRs made with my jf45ir.m GNU Octave script. I took the output of my RainSong Parlor's passive HFN soundboard transducer and generated an IR using a Dean Markley Promag Grand sound hole pickup as the target, instead of a nice microphone, while playing only in the 1st position.

I repeat the chord changes to "Summertime Blues" four times using an MXR Clone looper. The first two times I play the solo I do at gigs and the last two times I am attempting to improvise (apologies in advance this was a single take video).

1. Rhythm Guitar: RainSong CO-PA1100NS Passive HFN, HX Stomp jf45ir(HFN to Rode NT3) with plate reverb
2. Leads 1 & 3: HX Stomp with 10 dB gain, light compression, plate reverb
3. Leads 2 & 4: HX Stomp jf45ir(HFN to Dean Markley) with 10 dB gain, light compression, plate reverb

The QSC CP8 behind me is set to floor monitor EQ. The video was recorded with a Google Pixel 4XL in standard HD.

https://youtu.be/9_vNLt6uCW8

[James May]

Well, I CAN hear some difference, but I suspect the contrast is being diluted by the fact that your camera is always picking up SOME of the guitar's acoustic sound in the room. True?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by James May

Well, I CAN hear some difference, but I suspect the contrast is being diluted by the fact that your camera is always picking up SOME of the guitar's acoustic sound in the room. True?

True. I should have used my laptop to make an audio recording off the CP8 as a reference. I find without getting a room involved nothing sounds great to my ear, but adding in the room it is near impossible to eliminate the direct acoustic sound. I was running the CP8 loud enough to feedback when boosted if the guitar was closer to it.

As you can see my time is underutilized in retirement...

[jonfields45]

One more round of Summertime Blues...

This time direct to my PC from the CP8 (no video) to eliminate acoustic bleed from my guitar as pointed out by James (and I just bought a much better phone/tablet mic stand adapter ).

I've made a new acoustic IR I like better but I decided to stick with the backing track already on the looper for continuity with the video.

This time the original magnetic IR trained in the open position and a second magnetic IR trained in the 5th position.

I think the 5th position one is (even?) more subtle and better sounding. The bulk of the lead is played there. I'll try that one at my next gig.

1. Rhythm Guitar: RainSong CO-PA1100NS Passive HFN, HX Stomp jf45ir(HFN to Rode NT3) with plate reverb
2. Lead 1: HX Stomp with 10 dB gain, light compression, plate reverb
3. Lead 2: HX Stomp jf45ir(HFN to Dean Markley 1st Position) with 10 dB gain, light compression, plate reverb
4. Lead 2: HX Stomp jf45ir(HFN to Dean Markley 5th Position) with 10 dB gain, light compression, plate reverb

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F6y...ew?usp=sharing

[MikeBmusic]

I listened to both your video and the audio file. Sorry to tell you, but to my ears, none of the lead guitar parts sound electric at all.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I listened to both your video and the audio file. Sorry to tell you, but to my ears, none of the lead guitar parts sound electric at all.

I assume Dean Markley would be glad to hear that!

Maybe this is more about getting a magnetic pickup sound, when it has an advantage, out of my SBT equipped guitar without adding a second magnetic pickup.

I also had the mag IRs at 50% (50/50 raw pickup and pickup processed by IR), maybe I should run those IRs up to 100% and try again.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I listened to both your video and the audio file. Sorry to tell you, but to my ears, none of the lead guitar parts sound electric at all.

I think part of that is attitude; he's not exactly playing with an electric mindset.

[jonfields45]

Here is another approach from a different angle...

I bought a PRS S2 McCarty Thinline and I've decided to try gigging in my "acoustic" duo with this instrument. It blends nicely with my partner's acoustic and of course the electric leads sound great. We've been at it about 10 years so I expect no pushback from our regular employers who are generally not guitarists anyway.

About 1/3 of our repertoire is the other guy on bass and I wondered what I could do with the HX Stomp to make the electric sound like an acoustic. I bought the acoustic simulation patches available on the Line 6 forum. Maybe the man-on-the-street might raise their hand if asked do you hear an acoustic guitar, but they all sounded over-the-top bad to me.

So what about maybe trying to take a little of the electric edge off? Not really an acoustic simulation, but more than just de-Leo-Fender-izing (by bypassing the Fender Deluxe Reverb simulator in my standard patch which sounds bad too).

I recorded an IR with a magnetic pickup to mic in my acoustic...no good.

I also took the winner I'll describe in a moment and convolved it (think of this as passing it through serial equalizers) with real acoustic guitar IRs...really no good.

But this last approach sounds way better than just bypassing the Deluxe Reverb amp model, but it may not qualify as an improvement over the standard electric patch. I took a mic to my PRS (not a lot of acoustic volume but it's doable) and did a standard pickup to mic IR selecting both humbuckers not split playing in the first position.

Here is a short MP3. It is the into to Scarborough Fair followed by a few strummed chords. I used the neck pickup alone for the electric patch as I would anyway, and both pickups for the "acoustic" IR. I left the same spring reverb on for both. I'm going to try this patch and my PRS Saturday at our weather permitting Winery/Distillery/Brewery gig to see if it is an improvement for straight strumming when there is no second acoustic guitar to blend into.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7d...ew?usp=sharing

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Here is another approach from a different angle...

I bought a PRS S2 McCarty Thinline and I've decided to try gigging in my "acoustic" duo with this instrument. It blends nicely with my partner's acoustic and of course the electric leads sound great. We've been at it about 10 years so I expect no pushback from our regular employers who are generally not guitarists anyway.

About 1/3 of our repertoire is the other guy on bass and I wondered what I could do with the HX Stomp to make the electric sound like an acoustic. I bought the acoustic simulation patches available on the Line 6 forum. Maybe the man-on-the-street might raise their hand if asked do you hear an acoustic guitar, but they all sounded over-the-top bad to me.

So what about maybe trying to take a little of the electric edge off? Not really an acoustic simulation, but more than just de-Leo-Fender-izing (by bypassing the Fender Deluxe Reverb simulator in my standard patch which sounds bad too).

I recorded an IR with a magnetic pickup to mic in my acoustic...no good.

I also took the winner I'll describe in a moment and convolved it (think of this as passing it through serial equalizers) with real acoustic guitar IRs...really no good.

But this last approach sounds way better than just bypassing the Deluxe Reverb amp model, but it may not qualify as an improvement over the standard electric patch. I took a mic to my PRS (not a lot of acoustic volume but it's doable) and did a standard pickup to mic IR selecting both humbuckers not split playing in the first position.

Here is a short MP3. It is the into to Scarborough Fair followed by a few strummed chords. I used the neck pickup alone for the electric patch as I would anyway, and both pickups for the "acoustic" IR. I left the same spring reverb on for both. I'm going to try this patch and my PRS Saturday at our weather permitting Winery/Distillery/Brewery gig to see if it is an improvement for straight strumming when there is no second acoustic guitar to blend into.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7d...ew?usp=sharing

Sounds like an electric to me. Not unpleasant, though, I can't see the need for IRs, multiple EQ, etc. Should be able to dial in that sound fairly easily.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

Sounds like an electric to me. Not unpleasant, though, I can't see the need for IRs, multiple EQ, etc. Should be able to dial in that sound fairly easily.

We decided at rehearsal today to stick with the Fender Amp model and turn its treble down slightly.

I'll have my IR handy if I decide to give it a try, but it is much easier just sticking with the amp model and boosting for solos using a Tube Screamer model. Otherwise I need to switch pickups on the guitar, swap the amp for the IR, and turn on the tube screamer.

Excepting the pickup switch all doable with one footswitch on the HX Stomp, but it makes using the volume control on the guitar (on an electric guitar it is one or two monster knobs placed conveniently), and one of the nicest things about an electric guitar, not as straightforward to use.