LR Baggs Anthem users?

[rockabilly69]

Okay I have been auditioning a Full Anthem system in one of my favorite dreads for about a month now, and with all the positive comments about the Anthem, I'm going to be the voice of dissent. Yes, I agree, at low volumes to medium it sounds pretty nice.

I tested it for about a week in my studio at low to medium volumes with a full Schertler amp system consisting of the Jam 200, Schertler Side, and Bass 200. This system delivers a very wide frequency range with a lot of headroom. At low to medium volumes it fared well against my favorite pickup system the B-Band XOM 2.2, and I was considering putting one into my favorite gigger, a recent Gibson custom 1950's J45 reissue.

But then I brought it out into the real world where I had three fairly big gigs.
For these gigs I was using a Schertler Jam 400 slaving into a pair of JBL PRX710s or a pair of slightly louder Mackie HD1221.

My complaints are squishy low-end, and not so great feedback rejection when things get loud (as in concert venues, not coffee shops). The phase button helps, as does the mix control, but I found myself dialing most of the mic out of the mix to keep the feedback down and the Element has never been one of my favorite USTs. I've always found a bit of high E volume drop on every one I've tried (MANY).

Long story short, this will be the last Anthem system for me.

For someone using in-ear monitors it may be a better option when you can have more mic in the mix, but for my gigs with loud stage volume it was a fail.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Okay I have been auditioning a Full Anthem system in one of my favorite dreads for about a month now, and with all the positive comments about the Anthem, I'm going to be the voice of dissent. Yes, I agree, at low volumes to medium it sounds pretty nice.

I tested it for about a week in my studio at low to medium volumes with a full Schertler amp system consisting of the Jam 200, Schertler Side, and Bass 200. This system delivers a very wide frequency range with a lot of headroom. At low to medium volumes it fared well against my favorite pickup system the B-Band XOM 2.2, and I was considering putting one into my favorite gigger, a recent Gibson custom 1950's J45 reissue.

But then I brought it out into the real world where I had three fairly big gigs.
For these gigs I was using a Schertler Jam 400 slaving into a pair of JBL PRX710s or a pair of slightly louder Mackie HD1221.

My complaints are squishy low-end, and not so great feedback rejection when things get loud (as in concert venues, not coffee shops). The phase button helps, as does the mix control, but I found myself dialing most of the mic out of the mix to keep the feedback down and the Element has never been one of my favorite USTs. I've always found a bit of high E volume drop on every one I've tried (MANY).

Long story short, this will be the last Anthem system for me.

For someone using in-ear monitors it may be a better option when you can have more mic in the mix, but for my gigs with loud stage volume it was a fail.

The feedback issue is an odd one. I play in a fairly noisy celtic band and we have wedges blasting up at us. The volume on stage is loud but not painfully so. I have never had feedback with any pickups. That includes the Lyric, Anthem SL and Trance Amulet M. I wonder why you were experiencing that.

I do agree with the higher volumes sounding bad. At home, the Anthem sounds great. Live it just loses some warmth and low end. It's all mid range.

[jseth]

I ahve found the Anthem SL to be extremely feedback resistant and producing very good tone, but not at any sort of high decibel levels... I play mostly in smaller/medium coffehouse/restaurant-type venues where excessive volume isn't wanted, let alone needed. Plus, playing through the Bose L1 rig helps "get the sound around" without having to pin folks' ears back...

Other than a heavily eq-d UST or soundhole pickup, I've never heard an acoustic guitar that sounded worth a darn in a high-volume setting.... unless you're wanting that thin, bright "rock strumming" acoustic tone.

Until you reach a certain level of venue and $$$income, you ain't gonna have a deluxe sound guy to tweak things for you... you'd better find something that just works, every time you plug it in...

There are some excellent acoustic "simulators" that would extend the range of an electric guitar for decent acoustic sounds in some applications... I'd go there before I'd do what would need to be done to play an acoustic guitar in a loud band with any success...

About the Anthem SL... when I first got it, I figured I'd use "mostly" the mic portion... was very surprised to find that, even after 7+ years, I still turn that little set screw more towards the bass (UST) portion of the equation. The True-Mic sounds REALLY harsh and needs a LOT of eq when it's the prevalent feature; somehow, when I dial in the UST a bit more, the entire signal gets much easier to fine-tune from there. I know a lot of folks who never even adjusted the thing to the rig through which they play... makes a HUGE difference, say, between a standard PA rig and the Bose rig I use...

Funny, I know the full Anthem has way more control over the signal and the two portions of the pickup... I got the SL specifically because I knew that I would not be attempting to play a high volume levels with my acoustic guitars. Those adjustments are great , but IF you need them... lot of folks just get lost in what they can do with the signal on those, and just give up and go with what they've got... the big ones take some figuring to get it right... plus, I just couldn't bring myself to hanging that cheesecake sized wedge on the top of my guitar!

Whatever you get... get the right tool for the job.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by jseth

Other than a heavily eq-d UST or soundhole pickup, I've never heard an acoustic guitar that sounded worth a darn in a high-volume setting.... unless you're wanting that thin, bright "rock strumming" acoustic tone.

Until you reach a certain level of venue and $$$income, you ain't gonna have a deluxe sound guy to tweak things for you... you'd better find something that just works, every time you plug it in...

For my last show I was playing a very high dollar 2 hour solo show but it was a last minute thing so no time to contract a major sound reinforcement company. I played for a few hundred people, I had to throw the sound out across a field because the rain started coming down and about 100 yards out their was an area with overhangs and umbrellas for people to get out of the rain so yes the stage volume was loud, although I didn't use monitors I just turned the Jam 400 in enough to hear the basic tone and it's volume wasn't that high. It is something I'm very used to. But the Mackie HD1221 speakers about 6 to 7 feet out from me were cranked to reach the group. It was that loud pair causing the Anthem system to feed back. It was loud but not a real load of low end. On my pedal board I have a Grace Alix which has a pretty good EQ and it was working overtime. And let me say this, I am pretty skilled using EQs as I run a project studio and have taught classes on setting up live sound. And then, I switched guitars to a J45 with a B-band XOM 2.2 system in it and I had nowhere near the problem with feedback, without having to do any substantial EQ with it. I also had a smaller body OM with the same B-Band system and no problem either. I'm glad I didn't rely solely on the Anthem! And up at volume I felt like the Anthem's sound just fell apart. As I said I think it sounds pretty nice at low volume.

And in the course of a 2 hour gig I go from very gentle fingerpicked singer/songwriter stuff to high volume open tuned slide guitar workouts blues songs. So I need a lot of dynamic range. And frankly the stuff I was having the hardest stuff with at the loud volume was the gentle stuff where I needed the clean headroom.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by edward993

Thanks for all the feedback guys! And sorry I initially posted in the wrong sub forum ...thanks, mods, for moving it!

1. I'm putting it in a Taylor 210dlx ...no disrespect, but for me it's a more modest, kinda "beater" guit that I don't have to stress over.

2. Tried the K&K in a stellar-sounding RTaylor ...hated it. And I know how to eq ...just hated it. Either from my Venue or at the console, I never got the tone to sound natural, ugh!

3. Don't like typical piezo-UST tone ...never met one I liked; total deal killer as a stand-alone pickup.

4. Full Anthem costs a lot more than the SL version, which I understand it the same, just without the user-defined blender pot as it is factory set. And since this 210 is not my go-to-live guit, I don't want to spend the extra dough as much as I simply want to have a genuinely good-sounding pickup in a "just in case" situation. If the SL sounds as good as many say it does, I can live without the blending feature.

Edward

Hi Edward,
In the scheme of things it's extra money well spent to get the full Anthem version, and you do NOT have to use the saddle transducer if you don't want it, or require its benefits.

I have an Anthem system in my Flammang, and at first it was purely for the convenience of possibly showing up at an open mic, and just plugging into the house system.

I still had a Fishman SBT-E soundboard transducer glued north of the bridge plate, though, so I had a male micro jack soldered to the wire just in case.

At some point I had a new, higher saddle made during the winter months, and when the spring rolled 'round I took out the saddle transducer, dropping the action.

I plugged the Fishman SBT-E into the open input jack on the Anthem.

It's much smoother sounding, and blends very nicely with Baggs mic, or just by itself if desired.

HE

[Kindness]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I have the full Anthem in two Collings OM's and I had a Taylor with ES2, Santa Cruz with K&K and others.

The full anthem is well worth the extra. I like blending the Tru-mic with the Element UST and I enjoy the LED's that allow me to check Battery life. Also, Batteries last quite a long time.

I am VERY impressed with the Baggs Anthem. I have not tried the SL, but for me, the full Anthem has proven itself many times over.

\\

What is the difference between the "Full" Anthem, and the Anthem SL?

Thx

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Kindness

\\

What is the difference between the "Full" Anthem, and the Anthem SL?

Thx

The full anthem has a larger onboard preamp that offers volume, blend control, battery indicator, phase inversion, and mic level control adjustment (relative to the element). The SL version just has the volume and mic level control adjustment (relative to the element). The difference in price is roughly $100. Other than it's the same system. I have them both I can't say I really prefer one over the other. But my experience is completely opposite to what another poster said about the overall volume. My full anthem equipped guitar has a way hotter output than my SL equipped guitar they're not even close. That difference in output actually annoys the hell outta me! It should also be noted that with the full anthem it is possible to fully dial out the mic portion of the system with the tone control set all the way to the element. With the tone control set all the way to the mic side the UST is still handling 250Hz and below.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

The full anthem has a larger onboard preamp that offers volume, blend control, battery indicator and the crossover adjustment. The SL version just has the volume and crossover adjustment. The difference in price is roughly $100. Other than it's the same system. I have them both I can't say I really prefer one over the other. But my experience is completely opposite to what another poster said about the overall volume. My full anthem equipped guitar has a way hotter output than my SL equipped guitar they're not even close. That difference in output actually annoys the hell outta me!

I thought the crossover frequency was fixed at 250Hz and it only applied the the "mic" part of the signal, irregardless of how much full frequency range Element signal is being blended in. Is the crossover frequency adjustable somehow?


BTW, I'm about to experiment with swapping out an Element UST for an Open To Source Sensor UST manufactured by David Enke. It will be an easy swap because the Element uses a small mini-plug to connect to the barn door style preamp in my Crafter,

If the experiment is successful, the swap may also be a way to upgrade Anthem systems.


I already have the OTSS UST in a different guitar, and recording experiments have shown it to be much less quacky than the Element. Once I get the OTSS UST installed in the Crafter, I can record to make direct comparisons with the same guitar.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Is the crossover frequency adjustable somehow?

My bad I edited the previous post. I meant mic volume control (relative to the element). I'm pretty sure the crossover frequency is not adjustable.

[GuitarLuva]

For what it's worth, yesterday I decided to do an experiment by removing anthem components one at a time starting with the element UST to see how they impacted unplugged tone. Believe it or not the UST had the least impact. The large onboard preamp was the biggest culprit followed by the mic. They were really preventing the top from vibrating properly. I ripped the entire system out and its never going back in. I'm staying clear of systems that contain lots of components from now on. I emailed Baggs a week ago with the issues I was having. Nobody responded to me and now I think I know why!

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

For what it's worth, yesterday I decided to do an experiment by removing anthem components one at a time starting with the element UST to see how they impacted unplugged tone. Believe it or not the UST had the least impact. The large onboard preamp was the biggest culprit followed by the mic. They were really preventing the top from vibrating properly. I ripped the entire system out and its never going back in. I'm staying clear of systems that contain lots of components from now on. I emailed Baggs a week ago with the issues I was having. Nobody responded to me and now I think I know why!

I'm really surprised that Baggs customer service hasn't gotten back to you in a timely fashion. When my Anthem SL system started distorting, they had me send it to them and they actually replaced the Tru Mic for free. On another occasion, they sent me two replacement mini-saddle pickups when one of my Baggs Hex mini-saddle pickups went bad. In any event, this is the first time I've heard of Baggs customer service not being responsive. I hope its not a sign of the times.

On the plus side, its great that you've identified the problem and resolved it. Its also good that the Anthem is a currently fashionable pickup system and will likely re-sell pretty well.

Here's hoping that the next pickup in that guitar does no harm and a lot of good.

[doublescale1]

Go for the full Anthem, it's worth the extra control, and you'll find a use for all that at one point. It's such an organic sounding mic pickup, use all of it.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

I'm really surprised that Baggs customer service hasn't gotten back to you in a timely fashion. When my Anthem SL system started distorting, they had me send it to them and they actually replaced the Tru Mic for free. On another occasion, they sent me two replacement mini-saddle pickups when one of my Baggs Hex mini-saddle pickups went bad. In any event, this is the first time I've heard of Baggs customer service not being responsive. I hope its not a sign of the times.

On the plus side, its great that you've identified the problem and resolved it. Its also good that the Anthem is a currently fashionable pickup system and will likely re-sell pretty well.

Here's hoping that the next pickup in that guitar does no harm and a lot of good.

Yeah I emailed them in the past regarding output differences between the SL and the full anthem and they got back to me right away. Maybe since theres no fix for this they chose to ignore it. It wouldn't have mattered either way as the story would've still ended with bye bye Anthem!

[sm88]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, I just don't want to create a new one when there is already an Anthem discussion open. I have a 90's Martin D-15 that I'd like to install an Anthem in, but since that costs a fair amount money I would have to sell off something I already have. I have a Breedlove C250cme that I am considering selling to help finance the purchase.

My question is this: is the Anthem worth it? I love my Martin, it has a huge sentimental value to me and it sounds great. But I also like my Breedlove as it has been my main instrument for 6 years. Is the sound quality of the Anthem good enough to justify me only having one acoustic?

[steverok]

I have the Anthem installed in two Guild acoustic guitars I own. While I find the sound to be very good and flexible, in both of them, the output volume is quite low compared to my other electrified acoustics. My J45 has the LR Baggs Element, which I believe uses the same UST as the Anthem, yet its volume is significantly higher than my Anthem equipped acoustics. Even with the Anthem dialed all the way 100% to the UST, it is much quieter than my J45. Anyone else have this experience ?