Help withwith my Lowden 40th Anniversary wood combination!

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by printer2

How about a spruce/cedar laminate for the top? Crispy warmth?

Yes my friend......it will be if you keep it in the oven long enough

[Fsgeek]

Hi Marcus,

For a first guitar I would always choose German/euro spruce. Most of the guitars I fell in love w/ has this top... They project well and are complex... Never liked anything adi topped as I find them stiff. Englemann is another good choice, for me thay sound similar to German/euro... Sitka is always good, but I prefer the complexity of the other spruces....

But the best Lowden I have played is a O-10, cedar top and mahogany back and sides... It has a powerful, warm and woody sound... It is probably in the top 3 of factory guitars I have played.

[Andy Howell]

Originally Posted by Fsgeek

Hi Marcus,


But the best Lowden I have played is a O-10, cedar top and mahogany back and sides... It has a powerful, warm and woody sound... It is probably in the top 3 of factory guitars I have played.

One of the best Lowdens I ever played was a small bodied cedar and mahogany instrument - probably the best blues guitar I've found yet!

[Marcus Wong]

Originally Posted by Farhad

Have you seen Jon Gomm's guitar? I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the eastetics (specially when it concerns back and sides).

Yes. I think I've decided to looks past aesthetics and take a more practical approach.

How hard is Redwood? Does it mark and scratch as easily as cedar or is it as durable as spruce. I mean in the sense of holding up to percussion on the sound board. As ideally I prefer the sound of redwood but if it isn't going to be as durable as spruce, I will go with spruce instead. Would appreciate feedback from people who have had experience with that!

[iim7V7IM7]

Redwood can be highly variable in hardness and stiffness. So take this with a grain of salt.

Redwood
Janka Hardness: 450 lbf (2,000 N)

Norway Spruce
Janka Hardness: 377 lbf (1,680 N)

Western Red Cedar
Janka Hardness: 350 lbf (1,560 N)

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

Yes. I think I've decided to looks past aesthetics and take a more practical approach.

How hard is Redwood? Does it mark and scratch as easily as cedar or is it as durable as spruce. I mean in the sense of holding up to percussion on the sound board. As ideally I prefer the sound of redwood but if it isn't going to be as durable as spruce, I will go with spruce instead. Would appreciate feedback from people who have had experience with that!

[Marcus Wong]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Redwood can be highly variable in hardness and stiffness. So take this with a grain of salt.

Redwood
Janka Hardness: 450 lbf (2,000 N)

Norway Spruce
Janka Hardness: 377 lbf (1,680 N)

Western Red Cedar
Janka Hardness: 350 lbf (1,560 N)

Oh I have never considered this Janka hardness rating before! But I did research and the values for Cedar and Redwood seem to match your values. Sitka spruce is slightly harder than Redwood though but not too far off. 2270 approx. Thanks for bringing this up!

For those wondering what this test is, my research has come up with:
The Janka hardness test measures the resistance of a sample of wood to denting and wear. It measures the force required to embed an 11.28mm (.444 in) steel ball into wood to half the ball's diameter. (Taken from Wikipedia)

[Marcus Wong]

Incidentally, despite the Janka hardness rating for Redwood being higher than Cedar, I've read in a few instances that Redwood is as prone to dings, if not more so, as Cedar. And is prone to cracks too! Can anyone verify this as I do a lot of "guitar beating" and would hate for the Redwood to crack!

[islandguitar]

From my research and experience there is......"redwood" and there is REDWOOD. REDWOOD would be a great top from a great builder ( Lowden and others) which has the physical properties needed to withstand a tendency to crack. Stiffness along the grain and throughout ( along with great tap tone). Not all redwood has these properties which is why the subject is variable and not consistent.
In my view, if you do a lot of "guitar beating", your guitar, no matter what wood the soundboard turns out to be is going to get a bit messed up. Tommy Emmanuel's spruce guitars are testimony to that! Will it cause it crack?? "Wood is wood" and unique.... IMHO no one can say for certain without knowing all the factors about how the guitar is cared for beyond it being played aggressively and even then I don't think there are guarantees with something as organic and kinetic as a guitar soundboard. There may be odds, but no guarantees.

[rogthefrog]

FWIW, I have played the cr@p out of my '95 Taylor with spruce top, and while it does show a bunch of pits from spirited playing, there is zero structural damage after 19 years.

I can't believe it's been 19 years. Now I feel old.

[iim7V7IM7]

A recent discussion about redwood...

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...hlight=Redwood

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

Incidentally, despite the Janka hardness rating for Redwood being higher than Cedar, I've read in a few instances that Redwood is as prone to dings, if not more so, as Cedar. And is prone to cracks too! Can anyone verify this as I do a lot of "guitar beating" and would hate for the Redwood to crack!

[Farhad]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

Yes. I think I've decided to looks past aesthetics and take a more practical approach.

How hard is Redwood? Does it mark and scratch as easily as cedar or is it as durable as spruce. I mean in the sense of holding up to percussion on the sound board. As ideally I prefer the sound of redwood but if it isn't going to be as durable as spruce, I will go with spruce instead. Would appreciate feedback from people who have had experience with that!

Hi Marcus

The last Lowden I owned before moving on from Lowden to another builder was an O35xc (with bevel) redwood/cocobolo. Redwood is indeed more tolarable than cedar and yes I would say almost as good as spruce in terms of surface harness. The sound of redwood is also somewhere between cedar and spruce (it is almost a combo of adirondack and cedar). It certainly has much more sparkle than cedar. In my experience (with Lowden bracing), the sound can be a harsh at time. Once changing strings from Elixir to Daddario phsophor/bronz that aspect improves.

I don't know how much you are paying for your custom order but The Fellowship of Acoustics has an O-model with bevel of redwood/cocobolo for a very good price.

[Simon Fay]

Sitka Spruce and Adirondack are very durable. European Spruce a little less durable and Engelmann even less durable still. However, Redwood and Cedar are significantly more prone to dents. Redwood can vary a great deal and so I'm sure that there are some tops that are closer to Spruce but in my experience, Redwood has always been extremely delicate. Redwood is also extremely crack prone - although you would need to be doing some very rough percussive stuff for that to become an issue. If you are concerned about denting the top, do not consider Cedar or Redwood.

[jmat]

Originally Posted by Marcus Wong

Oh I have never considered this Janka hardness rating before! But I did research and the values for Cedar and Redwood seem to match your values. Sitka spruce is slightly harder than Redwood though but not too far off. 2270 approx. Thanks for bringing this up!

For those wondering what this test is, my research has come up with:
The Janka hardness test measures the resistance of a sample of wood to denting and wear. It measures the force required to embed an 11.28mm (.444 in) steel ball into wood to half the ball's diameter. (Taken from Wikipedia)

It is this kind of thing that makes me miss my physics labs. In chemistry an explosion generally was interpreted as a negative. Physics not so much.

[Marcus Wong]

Originally Posted by Simon Fay

Sitka Spruce and Adirondack are very durable. European Spruce a little less durable and Engelmann even less durable still. However, Redwood and Cedar are significantly more prone to dents. Redwood can vary a great deal and so I'm sure that there are some tops that are closer to Spruce but in my experience, Redwood has always been extremely delicate. Redwood is also extremely crack prone - although you would need to be doing some very rough percussive stuff for that to become an issue. If you are concerned about denting the top, do not consider Cedar or Redwood.

Hi Simon, according to Farhad, his redwood Lowden was almost as hard as a spruce top. Could that be an anomaly or are Lowden redwood just of that hardness (if you have had any experience with Lowden Redwood guitars). In Singapore the humidity is 100% so the chances of cracking would be lower right since being too dry is never an option. Of course I keep my guitars in a controlled room with 50% humidity level when not in use.

[Simon Fay]

Originally Posted by Simon Fay

Redwood can vary a great deal and so I'm sure that there are some tops that are closer to Spruce but in my experience, Redwood has always been extremely delicate

The above answers your first question. For your second question, Redwood splits very easily -- any kind of stress could be an issue. Too much humidity is not good at all. Low humidity is the worst but high humidity isn't good either. If you can't maintain the proper humidity then I definitely would rule out Redwood -- quite honestly, I would also rule out any spending much money on a quality wood guitar. In their place, I would recommend a good quality carbon fiber guitar (Rainsong, Blackbird, and Emerald make some very nice instruments).

Again, my recommendation is some type of Spruce/Rosewood.

Best of luck to you and whatever decision you make, I hope you are thrilled with the outcome.