acoustic archtops??

[avid_cyclist]

Originally Posted by dthumb

Barry..
I checked ot his ebay stuff and followed up a bit. Very interesting guitars and has spectacular reviews on Harmony Central. I couldn't find his web page though. He says he has one. Have you seen it? I may just give him a call and pick his brain a bit..kinda feel him out. All the reviewing posters said he was very approachable and friendly.
Thanks!

Yes, Gary Stroup is very approachable. . .one of the comments I made to him was that the finish on his archies didn't really look all that professional (I was a bit more tactful than that ). He emailed back that he was constantly improving in that department. I got the impression that he's a serious and honest luthier, lacking perhaps a bit in the cosmetics department, but he's very proud of his work and seems to be very customer oriented. . .and is improving all the time.

I also get the impression that he builds these guitars very quickly because he always seems to have different archtops for sale. Most are attractive, some quite ugly, especially a blue one he listed recently that almost looked liked he had applied the blue stain with a paint brush.

Most of the comments about his work have been positive, but mostly in a cost versus quality arena. His guitars are in the $1000 range and it seems that most of his customers feel the guitars are well worth that money.

-Barry

[dthumb]

FWIW...I e-mailed Gary Stroup this morning. He replied in a few hours. Very nice guy and had some suggestions. He also (chuckle) mentioned the "blue " one on eBay...I thought...YUCK!..Wood should never be blue. I'm going to follow up with him and check out some more details with him. He is VERY proud of his product and I find that to be quite impressive.
Still interested in the Eastmans, though. I found one at a super bargain..gently used. I'm just wonderin'..how much difference in "feel" would you guess one would expect between a 16 and 17 inch lower bout..and how about projection?
The ones I currently have are 15 1/2 and 18 inches....my tendency is to go small....thoughts?

[Charlie Ayers]

I play one by this guy (www.pacinfo.com/~sholst); I would highly recommend him. Mine is more traditional looking than many on his site, but each is custom. Mine was quite affordable.

Do you puruse archtop.com? I like the looks of the Trenier instruments, which are very attractively priced (the builder's site is http://trenierguitars.com).

Charlie

[Bern]

Charlie, those are fine looking instruments. Especially, the Trenier archtops. For custom made archtops, even I have to admit , they are very reasonably priced.

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by Charlie Ayers

I play one by this guy (www.pacinfo.com/~sholst); I would highly recommend him. Mine is more traditional looking than many on his site, but each is custom. Mine was quite affordable.

Do you puruse archtop.com? I like the looks of the Trenier instruments, which are very attractively priced (the builder's site is http://trenierguitars.com).

Charlie

Thanks, Charlie....those are quite lovely and I'm sure wonderful to play. However, just a tad out of my budget at this point..but, certainly something to bear in mind for a future investment.
I have found, since I started researching this thing, that the options are enormous....and the price ranges are all over the place and seem to have no real relationship to sound and playabilty so much as appearance. Right now I need the prior and would be willing to sacrifice a bit of "bling" for projection and tonal clarity.thanks again.

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by dthumb

FWIW...I e-mailed Gary Stroup this morning. He replied in a few hours. Very nice guy and had some suggestions. He also (chuckle) mentioned the "blue " one on eBay...I thought...YUCK!..Wood should never be blue. I'm going to follow up with him and check out some more details with him. He is VERY proud of his product and I find that to be quite impressive.
Still interested in the Eastmans, though. I found one at a super bargain..gently used. I'm just wonderin'..how much difference in "feel" would you guess one would expect between a 16 and 17 inch lower bout..and how about projection?
The ones I currently have are 15 1/2 and 18 inches....my tendency is to go small....thoughts?

A 16" Eastman like the AR805-CE has plenty of oomph, it's a very live instrument with uncanny volume and depth for an archtop. That'll be a feedback issue going through a regular guitar amp and I'd think an acoustic amp may work better. As I mentioned earlier, through a Bose PAS with the Ibanez Artist preset (3" archtop with no baffeling) it has plenty of gain.

You may want to check out the user reviews at Harmony Central for all the guitars you're interested in. Typically I wouldn't give much weight to those opinions but good archtops tend to be owned by good players that can be extremely critical, and their opinions can be helpful.

With Eastmans coming from Beijing, China I had concerns about the people who make them. It turns out they are well paid and have good working conditions. I think there's a photo tour of the mandolin facility at their website. Their mainstay is viol family instruments and bows and getting quality instruments into the hands of students who would otherwise be playing lesser Asian fare.

Hmmm....maybe I need a fiddle.

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by JohnZ

A 16" Eastman like the AR805-CE has plenty of oomph, it's a very live instrument with uncanny volume and depth for an archtop. That'll be a feedback issue going through a regular guitar amp and I'd think an acoustic amp may work better. As I mentioned earlier, through a Bose PAS with the Ibanez Artist preset (3" archtop with no baffeling) it has plenty of gain.

You may want to check out the user reviews at Harmony Central for all the guitars you're interested in. Typically I wouldn't give much weight to those opinions but good archtops tend to be owned by good players that can be extremely critical, and their opinions can be helpful.

With Eastmans coming from Beijing, China I had concerns about the people who make them. It turns out they are well paid and have good working conditions. I think there's a photo tour of the mandolin facility at their website. Their mainstay is viol family instruments and bows and getting quality instruments into the hands of students who would otherwise be playing lesser Asian fare.

Hmmm....maybe I need a fiddle.

Thanks, John....I just inquired about a used (2004) Eastman 810CE...a very good price. I have both acoustic and a Fender Twin to choose from. I have had this issue (feedback)with some other guitars as well. It seems more relegated to the pickup and proximity to the amp than anything else. Not sure about that one.
An interesting note on this...I did read some reviews on Harmony Central. Many folks compared Gary Stroup's guitars to Eastmans as far as playability and many say that they are much louder acoustically..he concurrs , of course.heehe...Finishwise there is no comparison but. I find it somewhat intruging that this fellow is so approachable and seemingly committed. I like to give a guy a chance when I can but, am not in the position to be a guinea pig. Could be that this fellow will grow and flourish..I hope so. We need more committed luthiers in this country. I like his philosophy of producing at reasonable costs with the understanding hat there are some sacrifices cosmetically. I just wonder to what degree. I will talk with him some more.
Thanks.

[Bm7b5]

Originally Posted by BigMo66

Although "cheap" is a relative term, compared to many archtops, the Tacomas hold their own very well. I'd love to have one, but they are still a bit expensive for me.



Solid bookmatched carved sitka spruce top; carved solid maple back and sides with Venetian cutaway; solid one-piece maple neck; solid ebony fingerboard; deluxe bound body, fingerboard and peghead. Contoured graphite tailpiece and finger rest; black Gotoh 16X1 tuners; compensated adjustable ebony bridge; EMG floating humbucking pickup with thumbwheel controls and endpin jack.

Thats the one I let slip away, but it was a Cherry Burst. And the GC price was suprisingly a good one, which I have yet to see beaten on that model. Who could know ? It was roughly the same price as 53 pairs of levis, at the time.

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by Bm7b5

Thats the one I let slip away, but it was a Cherry Burst. And the GC price was suprisingly a good one, which I have yet to see beaten on that model. Who could know ? It was roughly the same price as 53 pairs of levis, at the time.

Do you know what model that is? It doesn't appear on Tacoma's web page that I can see.

[Bm7b5]

I think they call it an AJF28C, or AJF22C.

I don't recall the distinction.

I get the feeling that Fender dropped it from the lineup, although it may have predated the buyout.

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by Bm7b5

I think they call it an AJF28C, or AJF22C.

I don't recall the distinction.

Thank you...actually I found it on another site. It has some very mixed reviews.(HC)....some love it , some hate it....?????....the diference in the #'s is the finish or so it seems. That guitar is Pre- Fender buy out and I believe out of production. One of the complaints is that Fender is not offering serice for it as a warranty thing.

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by dthumb

Thanks, John....I just inquired about a used (2004) Eastman 810CE...a very good price. I have both acoustic and a Fender Twin to choose from. I have had this issue (feedback)with some other guitars as well. It seems more relegated to the pickup and proximity to the amp than anything else. Not sure about that one.
An interesting note on this...I did read some reviews on Harmony Central. Many folks compared Gary Stroup's guitars to Eastmans as far as playability and many say that they are much louder acoustically..he concurrs , of course.heehe...Finishwise there is no comparison but. I find it somewhat intruging that this fellow is so approachable and seemingly committed. I like to give a guy a chance when I can but, am not in the position to be a guinea pig. Could be that this fellow will grow and flourish..I hope so. We need more committed luthiers in this country. I like his philosophy of producing at reasonable costs with the understanding hat there are some sacrifices cosmetically. I just wonder to what degree. I will talk with him some more.
Thanks.

If that's the case with playability on Stroup guitars then that's very good. Eastmans are available with a violin finish and are said to have a more 'old world' look and be a tad more vibrant...at the cost of higher maintenance. Personally, I can't imagine getting more volume and tone out of an archtop than an Eastman with a standard finish.

This brings up another issue of what you're going to do with it. There's a reason many models (of Gibsons lets say) are made with laminate tops, and that's because they're intended to be amplified through traditional means and get a fat sound....a setup not as friendly to something like an Eastman or Stroup. My ES-150 for instance acoustically stinks but the neck pickup sound is wonderful and can be played at near ES-335 (block of wood down the center) levels.

As to the earlier Eastmans that don't say 'AR' before the model number, there's ring that comes from the metal tailpiece that you can retrofit with ebony, but that's about it, far as I can tell.

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by JohnZ

If that's the case with playability on Stroup guitars then that's very good. Eastmans are available with a violin finish and are said to have a more 'old world' look and be a tad more vibrant...at the cost of higher maintenance. Personally, I can't imagine getting more volume and tone out of an archtop than an Eastman with a standard finish.

This brings up another issue of what you're going to do with it. There's a reason many models (of Gibsons lets say) are made with laminate tops, and that's because they're intended to be amplified through traditional means and get a fat sound....a setup not as friendly to something like an Eastman or Stroup. My ES-150 for instance acoustically stinks but the neck pickup sound is wonderful and can be played at near ES-335 (block of wood down the center) levels.

As to the earlier Eastmans that don't say 'AR' before the model number, there's ring that comes from the metal tailpiece that you can retrofit with ebony, but that's about it, far as I can tell.

Again, thanks....please see my inquiry in this forum " Eastman guitars"...a bit more specific. The Stroup comes with an ebony tailpiece. I am awiting an e-mail from Gary with answers to a few more questions.Acoustic perfomance is paramont to me. I'm not stuck on any particuar brand or age , for that matter, just sound.

[re17]

Originally Posted by Nilus

I'm not sure I understand the distinction between "vintage archtop", "jazz box," and "true acoustic f-hole archtop."

The boundaries are vague of course. I guess typically an archtop that's meant to be played acoustically would have a thin, solid top which would as much freedom as possible to vibrate. One that's intended mainly for amplification would have a somewhat thicker top, sometimes a laminate, to reduce feedback. Of course one can then get into issues like whether the top should be carved or pressed, but those are not relevant here (though important).

There certainly should be no knee-jerk reactions about Eastmans simply because they're made in China. They are not production-line instruments in that they do have hand-carved tops and the people who make them are reasonably skilful and, one would hope, reasonably remunerated as a result. At the same time, the fact that they are produced in this way has led to various QC issues - indifferent finishes, varying scale lengths for any given model, never mind the official Eastman spec, and so forth.

If you need a celebrity connection for Eastman credibility, well Richard Thompson went and got one, but I don't know what he uses it for. (I think I'm on safe ground in saying "He went and got one" - Eastman does not advertise, or does not know, that he has, so they probably didn't give it him.)

All of the above said, I do have reservations about Eastmans in that they are variable and I wasn't thrilled with the two I tried. I would like to find one I can take home but given that they aren't even on sale where I live, that's pretty difficult.

Richard

[dthumb]

Originally Posted by re17

The boundaries are vague of course. I guess typically an archtop that's meant to be played acoustically would have a thin, solid top which would as much freedom as possible to vibrate. One that's intended mainly for amplification would have a somewhat thicker top, sometimes a laminate, to reduce feedback. Of course one can then get into issues like whether the top should be carved or pressed, but those are not relevant here (though important).

There certainly should be no knee-jerk reactions about Eastmans simply because they're made in China. They are not production-line instruments in that they do have hand-carved tops and the people who make them are reasonably skilful and, one would hope, reasonably remunerated as a result. At the same time, the fact that they are produced in this way has led to various QC issues - indifferent finishes, varying scale lengths for any given model, never mind the official Eastman spec, and so forth.

If you need a celebrity connection for Eastman credibility, well Richard Thompson went and got one, but I don't know what he uses it for. (I think I'm on safe ground in saying "He went and got one" - Eastman does not advertise, or does not know, that he has, so they probably didn't give it him.)

All of the above said, I do have reservations about Eastmans in that they are variable and I wasn't thrilled with the two I tried. I would like to find one I can take home but given that they aren't even on sale where I live, that's pretty difficult.

Richard

As far as the "labels" I think intent is the main ingredient, As you said, the top construction is one consideration. Additionally, the bracing which may determine string type, wheather the pickup is floating or face mounted and wood selection. From what I've learned thus far, the Eastmans fit the criteria as true acoustics with added amplification. This is true of Gary Stroup's guitars as well and I'm sure many others but, not all. Mine fall into the latter category. Thats why I'm shopping.
So far, all I have heard and seen on the Eastmans is excellent. My only real issue at this time is size..16 or 17"...the one I've found used is 17".