String Spacing at Bridge

[MrBJones]

My playing is nearly all fingerstyle, with genre across the board. As I've mentioned in other recent posts, I've gotten into some chord melodies - played fingerstyle - and like it enough that I'm seriously considering an archtop. Hopefully I'll actually find some to try, before buying, but in the meantime....

In the world of flat top fingerstyle, 2¼" spacing at the bridge is often considered optimal. But the archtops I've looked at online seem to be narrower by a fair amount -- typically the spacing is around 2-3/32, or even less. Is there anything that makes it less of an issue, or even a benefit (assume light jazz, standards, etc)...or is it just something you get used to? For those of you who play both flat tops and archtops, is it difficult to go back and forth?
Thanks!

[Livingston]

I go back and forth between a Taylor 912C and various electric archtops. The Taylor has a 1-3/4" nut which has long been my preference (vs. a narrower nut).

Over the years, as I have purchased electric archtops, I have replaced the 1-15/32" nuts with 1-3/4" nuts to achieve a similar string spacing as my Taylor. I've also sanded down the ebony (or rosewood) bridge and then re-filed new string slots to complete the string spacing modification.

There are 2 possible downsides to this. First, the strings may not line up perfectly with pickup poles on the pickup after such a mod. Second, the high and low E strings get closer to the edge of the fretboard.

Regarding pickup pole alignment, this may be a moot point on an acoustic, since very likely you may not have a floating or top mounted pickup pickup. Furthermore, even if you do, I have not noticed any issues with the strings not perfectly lining up with the pickup poles...but that is my own experience.

Regarding the E strings being closer to the edge of the fretboard, I have never found this to be an issue. In my case, there is enough fret left for me for both E strings. Having said that, I've know some acoustic players playing a non-modified guitar, who have issues with the string "falling" of the edge of the fretboard. So, I guess it depends on the guitarist and how you play.

Besides the 2 issues I've mentioned, I don't see any downside to modifying string spacing on an archtop, within reasonable tolerances.

The beauty of the wooden floating bridge is, if you don't like the modified strings spacing, you could always sand it down and re-space the string slots again!

Darryl

[TimL]

Hope I'm not hijacking this thread but I have the same problem as Bruce and
I've often wondered the same thing. While an archtop with an 1 3/4" is fairly easy to find, the bridge string spacings are fairly tight for fingerstyle playing. I also have wondered about replacing the bridge and refiling new slots. My main concern about doing this is more in relation to how the string angle at the tail piece would affect the string tension. Is that something to worry about? And just how far can one go before you need to replace the tail piece?

Anybody have any experience in this?

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by TimL

My main concern about doing this is more in relation to how the string angle at the tail piece would affect the string tension. Is that something to worry about? And just how far can one go before you need to replace the tail piece?

Anybody have any experience in this?

String angle should not be affected even if you re-file new string slots. There are height adjustment wheels on your bridge, allowing you to adjust the height of your saddle, once you've re-filed the string slots.

I've done this on several archtops with no issue.

[MrBJones]

Originally Posted by Livingston

String angle should not be affected even if you re-file new string slots. There are height adjustment wheels on your bridge, allowing you to adjust the height of your saddle, once you've re-filed the string slots.

I've done this on several archtops with no issue.

If I'm not mistaken, Tim wasn't referring to the break angle, as the strings go over the saddle. I think he was referring to the angle caused by the strings not being parallel to each other, as viewed from the top.

[TimL]

you are right Bruce. I am talking about the string spread at the saddle in relation to the slots in the tail piece.

Tim

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by TimL

you are right Bruce. I am talking about the string spread at the saddle in relation to the slots in the tail piece.

Tim

Sorry I missed that detail.

Nonetheless, in my personal experience, I have not found the tailpiece slot spacing to adversely affect the (wider) slot spacing on the modified saddle. The mods I have done have been inconsequential with regard to the tailpiece slot spacing.

I think the bigger issue might be where the strings are positioned on the fretboard (i.e. E strings distance from the edge) and over the pickup poles (if you have a pickup).

Certainly YMMV...but this has been my experience.

Hope this information has been helpful.

[TimL]

Answers my question
Thanks Livingston.

[MrBJones]

So if the spacing was already 2-3/32", and you wanted it to be 2¼", you would need to increase it by 5/32" (a little bit more than 1/8").

• Both E strings would be moved a tiny bit more than 1/16" closer to the edge;
• the A and B strings would move a little less than that;
• the D and G strings would essentially not move at all.

Do most pickups have enough wiggle room to allow for that?

And, in general, is this the approach that most archtop fingerstylists take? Or do you just deal with the narrower spacing? Or do you find an archtop that comes with wider spacing at the bridge (do they exist)?

[MrBJones]

Do most who play fingertyle on archtops alter the bridge spacing, or do you just work with it as is?

[Larry Pattis]

I have talked about this at great length on the main forum.

The geometry of the fingerboard has to match certain aspects of bridge spacing, and the specs on this are always personal...but there is some uniformity that can be provided, in general.

In the flat-top world, most builders/companies deliver a guitar that matches the E-to-E bridge spacing with the overall width of the fingerboard at the 14th fret...and this is regardless of overall nut width (and nut spacing).

I happen to prefer a wider taper to the fingerboard, in relation to the bridge spacing...it turns out that I like the bridge spacing to match the 12th fret neck/fingerboard overall width...or perhaps making the 'board even a tad wider. This gives good distance between the E strings and the edges of the fingerboard, as you go up the neck.

As an example, *my* standard is a 2-1/4" bridge spacing, and the fingerboard will be 2-1/4" (or even a bit wider) at the 12th fret. Some people do *not* want this extra distance between the E strings and the edges of the fingerboard, and so this is indeed a very personal decision...

...but once you look into (and record) the actual numbers of what is comfortable for you (bridge-spacing-wise), as a player, then you can also examine the other geometric aspects of the guitar from a perspective of knowledge & experience.

I do also tend to use a 1-3/4" overall nut width, with a 1-1/2" string-spacing...and be aware that with the fixed overall nut width there can be some variation with the string spacing...I have seen a full 1/16" difference from builder to builder, that is, from 1-15/32" to 1-17/32" for the string spacing at the nut (on the 1-3/4" nut).

[MrBJones]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I have talked about this at great length on the main forum.

The geometry of the fingerboard has to match certain aspects of bridge spacing, and the specs on this are always personal...but there is some uniformity that can be provided, in general.

In the flat-top world, most builders/companies deliver a guitar that matches the E-to-E bridge spacing with the overall width of the fingerboard at the 14th fret...and this is regardless of overall nut width (and nut spacing).

I happen to prefer a wider taper to the fingerboard, in relation to the bridge spacing...it turns out that I like the bridge spacing to match the 12th fret neck/fingerboard overall width...or perhaps making the 'board even a tad wider. This gives good distance between the E strings and the edges of the fingerboard, as you go up the neck.

As an example, *my* standard is a 2-1/4" bridge spacing, and the fingerboard will be 2-1/4" (or even a bit wider) at the 12th fret. Some people do *not* want this extra distance between the E strings and the edges of the fingerboard, and so this is indeed a very personal decision...

...but once you look into (and record) the actual numbers of what is comfortable for you (bridge-spacing-wise), as a player, then you can also examine the other geometric aspects of the guitar from a perspective of knowledge & experience.

I do also tend to use a 1-3/4" overall nut width, with a 1-1/2" string-spacing...and be aware that with the fixed overall nut width there can be some variation with the string spacing...I have seen a full 1/16" difference from builder to builder, that is, from 1-15/32" to 1-17/32" for the string spacing at the nut (on the 1-3/4" nut).

Thanks Larry, that's interesting; I didn't know that there's a standard correlation between bridge spacing and width of the neck at a specific fret.

If you had a guitar with bridge spacing less than 2-¼" - say 2-3/32", as seems to be typical for archtops - and generally liked its other aspects (tone, nut width, etc), would you 1) alter the saddle to make it wider; 2) leave it as is and just deal with it; or 3) not own the guitar in the first place?

Who knows? Maybe the narrow spacing won't bother me. But until I'm able to try some, I'm just doing my homework

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Thanks Larry, that's interesting; I didn't know that there's a standard correlation between bridge spacing and width of the neck at a specific fret.

If you had a guitar with bridge spacing less than 2-¼" - say 2-3/32", as seems to be typical for archtops - and generally liked its other aspects (tone, nut width, etc), would you 1) alter the saddle to make it wider; 2) leave it as is and just deal with it; or 3) not own the guitar in the first place?

Who knows? Maybe the narrow spacing won't bother me. But until I'm able to try some, I'm just doing my homework

Some people can adapt to different spacings, and/or (very important) adapt to guitars that have the E-strings with a closer distance to the edges of the fingerboard.

If you widen the bridge spacing on an existing guitar, the E strings get closer to the edges of the 'board...and the impact is more evident, incrementally, as you go to the higher frets.

For me, the guitar has to be built-right (to my specs, that is) from the get-go...you can alter the bridge and nut spacings, but you can't alter the existing geometry of the neck/fingerboard. Change one of the variables (spacings), and *something* will be different elsewhere...!