Difference between Eastman 810ce and 910ce?

[MrBJones]

The list price of the 910ce is quite a bit more than that of the 810ce. Based on Eastman's website, it looks like the difference between the two guitars might be primarily aesthetics. Is there more t it than that?

[RobertD0]

I owned a sunburst 800 series Eastman. Very nice guitar with very nice solid wood throughout. I seem to recall reading their best wood was saved for the 900 series guitars. Eastman also began charging a premium price for their blond solid wood 800 and 900 series guitars for the same reason.

[MrBJones]

Originally Posted by RobertD0

I owned a sunburst 800 series Eastman. Very nice guitar with very nice solid wood throughout. I seem to recall reading their best wood was saved for the 900 series guitars. Eastman also began charging a premium price for their blond solid wood 800 and 900 series guitars for the same reason.

Sooo...the difference is pretty much the aesthetics?

[Archtop Guy]

I've never owned one, but it is also my understanding that the differences are just aesthetic, trim and finish only, perhaps woods chosen for flame and uniform grain. I have never heard that the 900 hundred series gets any special attention with regard to carving, tap tuning, or setup.

Anyone? Anyone?

[RobertD0]

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Sooo...the difference is pretty much the aesthetics?

Not just aesthetics. Higher grade woods are more expensive. I don't know exactly what grade wood Eastman uses but I remember reading that they reserved for their best wood for the 900 series. They also used Schaller tuners on the 900, not the Grover knock-off Jinhos they use on the 800s (which I upgraded to Gotoh 510s). I assume they have their best luthiers working on their top of the line guitars as well.

[MrBJones]

Originally Posted by RobertD0

...Higher grade woods are more expensive. I don't know exactly what grade wood Eastman uses but I remember reading that they reserved for their best wood for the 900 series...

Wouldn't higher grade mean appearance of the grain etc? Or do they tap tune?

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Wouldn't higher grade mean appearance of the grain etc? Or do they tap tune?

No, just cosmetics - that fiddle maple back is what you pay extra for - doesn't affect the sound - but like on mandos - It's purty and purty costs.

I own an AR805e and have no complaints about the woods or overall sound. (I just need to sell it 'cos it doesn't get played).

BTW - mine is a 2007 model and it came with Gold/ebony Gotoh tuners - nut'n wrong with them!

[RobertD0]

Originally Posted by MrBJones

Wouldn't higher grade mean appearance of the grain etc? Or do they tap tune?

I have no idea if they tap tune. Archtops with carved tops are graduated as well, which affects tuning, or so I'm told.

There's more to higher grade wood than appearance, and higher price is paid for higher grades.

http://www.lmii.com/wood-grading

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by RobertD0

I have no idea if they tap tune. Archtops with carved tops are graduated as well, which affects tuning, or so I'm told.

There's more to higher grade wood than appearance, and higher price is paid for higher grades.

Of course the higher grade wood is more expensive, but the point is that very few people ever suggest that it sounds better.

And no, Eastman has never claimed to "tap tune" or that only the best luthiers work on the 900 series.

BTW, I love Eastmans. And I love nice looking guitars. But you probably shouldn't buy a 900 series because you think it will sound better.

[RobertD0]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

Of course the higher grade wood is more expensive, but the point is that very few people ever suggest that it sounds better.

And no, Eastman has never claimed to "tap tune" or that only the best luthiers work on the 900 series.

BTW, I love Eastmans. And I love nice looking guitars. But you probably shouldn't buy a 900 series because you think it will sound better.

I remember reading that one of the top archtop builders, Bob Benedetto, I think, built an archtop out of old scrap pallet wood and it sounded fine. But Stradivarius didn't use scrap wood and his violins are, well, they're Stradivarius violins. There are other considerations outside cosmetic appearance of finer woods.

From the LMI link.

http://www.lmii.com/wood-grading

Grain: Some people refer to the annular rings as the grain. Straight grain in this case refers to the lines of the annular rings being straight and parallel to each other. ‘Fine grain’ is when the annual rings are close together or are seen as fine lines. ‘Course grain’ is farther apart or the lines are wider and more visible.

Figure: Words like curly, quilted, bearclaw, and fiddleback all refer to different kinds of Figure. Figure is genetic, is only found in a small percentage of trees, and is highly prized by furniture makers and luthiers alike.

Color – Most woods have their basic color and then may (or may not) have other, usually darker, color bands that run parallel to the grain. In soundboards evenness of color is usually desired (though some like to see color stripes). In Cedar for example, the color bands can be very interesting. In woods like Koa, Walnut and Myrtle color bands are generally considered desirable.

Stiffness : The soundboard serves two purposes on a guitar, one as a stable anchor for the strings, and the other as the vibrating unit with which to move air i.e. produce sound. It is this dual purpose that makes stiffness such an important quality. Too much stiffness and it will dampen the tone – too little and the top will distort. We feel that the stiffer the top, the better so the top can be made thinner to reduce weight (another tone killer).

Winter Grain . These are the darker grain lines that define each annular ring on Sou8ndboards, and it is normally desirable if the winter grain is less apparent. In Adirondack spruce winter grain is less avoidable and most people expect to see it.

Medullar Rays or Silk . The closer a soundboard is to perfect quarter, the more likely the top will exhibit good silk. Silk appears as a subtle, very tight, curl-like pattern running perpendicular to the grain.

Flame figure (curly, fiddleback, tiger-stripe) runs perpendicular to the grain and adds a three-dimensional, liquid quality to the surface of the wood (especially when it is finished).

Quilt is the term used when the figure has pillowy, oval shapes. It is rarer than flame and is sometimes even more three-dimensional in appearance.

Birdseye figure shows an erratic arrangement of tiny, knot-like ("eye"-shaped) patterns in the wood.

Bees-wing –Here the figure is more random, sporadic and disconnected, but can be very beautiful and intense. Commonly found in Bubinga, we sometimes have Mahogany and Narra sets with bees-wing figure.

Spider-webbing . On some Rosewoods you will find dark lines (ink lines) that cross from one annular ring to another in a pattern very similar to a spider’s web.

Spalting . Spalting is caused by a pattern of bacterial decomposition in dead wood that eventually looks like a black ink line. It is often very irregular and does not follow any other grain patterns. Wood with spalt should be handled very carefully as it often destabilizes the wood. It is a nice choice for inlay and electric guitar tops, but is not a good choice for thin acoustic guitar plates.

Bearclaw . Also known as hazelfichte. Of these types of figure (above), only bearclaw is found in softwoods. Hard to describe verbally, bearclaw looks a bit like it sounds, like a bear used the tree to sharpen its claws and left small waves in the grain which may or may not be symmetrical on both sides of the top.

Runout refers to the orientation of wood cells being other than parallel to the edge (face) of the board. Often difficult to detect visually, severe runout can be detrimental to strength and sound transmission.

Waterfall figure is likened to a very soft, broad and undefined quilt pattern. The liquidy, three dimensional texture of the wood seems full of fluid motion – like a "waterfall".

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by RobertD0

I remember reading that one of the top archtop builders, Bob Benedetto, I think, built an archtop out of old scrap pallet wood and it sounded fine. But Stradivarius didn't use scrap wood and his violins are, well, they're Stradivarius violins. There are other considerations outside cosmetic appearance of finer woods.

From the LMI link.

http://www.lmii.com/wood-grading

Hi Robert,

Interesting discussion, even if we are drifting from original poster's question.

Of course Stradivari made nice violins, but I've never heard anyone suggest he chose his maple and spruce based on the LMI grading critieria. (As an aside, one of my archtops is made from Italian spruce, supposedly from the same neighborhood that Stradavari sourced his wood. I admit that was a selling point for me.)

Do you think it's noteworthy that even LMI doesn't mention that the higher grades sound better?

Bob Benedetto made a scrap wood guitar. Bob Taylor made the pallet guitar. I have a Manzer made from stuff she cut herself on a neighbors farm. I actually like (prefer?) a spruce top with some visible flaws, because each flaw is unique. I love high grade woods and beautiful guitars, but I try to keep it straight that those aren't the same qualities that make a great playing or sounding guitar.

Back to OP. I really like the look of the 900 series. I wouldn't mind having one. But if a person is on a tight budget, the 800 series is a great sounding option. It's a good bet that the variation in sound from guitar to guitar is much greater than any variation due to the grading of the wood.

[RobertD0]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

Hi Robert,

Interesting discussion, even if we are drifting from original poster's question.

Of course Stradivari made nice violins, but I've never heard anyone suggest he chose his maple and spruce based on the LMI grading critieria. (As an aside, one of my archtops is made from Italian spruce, supposedly from the same neighborhood that Stradavari sourced his wood. I admit that was a selling point for me.)

Do you think it's noteworthy that even LMI doesn't mention that the higher grades sound better?

Bob Benedetto made a scrap wood guitar. Bob Taylor made the pallet guitar. I have a Manzer made from stuff she cut herself on a neighbors farm. I actually like (prefer?) a spruce top with some visible flaws, because each flaw is unique. I love high grade woods and beautiful guitars, but I try to keep it straight that those aren't the same qualities that make a great playing or sounding guitar.

Back to OP. I really like the look of the 900 series. I wouldn't mind having one. But if a person is on a tight budget, the 800 series is a great sounding option. It's a good bet that the variation in sound from guitar to guitar is much greater than any variation due to the grading of the wood.

Yes, you're right about them not mentioning the wood quality/sound quality relationship. And anything to do with guitars is an interesting discussion.

And I'm sure Mr. Stradivarius had his own grading system.

Back to the OP, I played 800 and 900 series Eastmans and other than the aesthetics and higher quality hardware they were very similar in sound and build quality. I even played the "budget" 600 series "Jim Fish" Eastmans too, and they are likewise very acceptable guitars. I play a "The Loar" LH-400 now, probably nowhere near the quality of the Eastman 800 or 900 but, wood quality and aesthetics aside, after I sold my Eastman 804 and my previous Loar LH-400, the Loar was the guitar I always remembered.

I guess the bottom line is, as always, it's best to play them all and choose the one that speaks to you regardless of wood, bling, or any other consideration.