Technique?

[flagstaffcharli]

For those who play both classical guitar and steel string guitar, do you use the same right hand technique for both instruments? I am taking another shot at classical guitar lessons. The teacher has me reworking my right hand technique. I have no problem at all with what he wants me to do. However, I play steel string 3+ hours everyday right now with a steel string guitar on my right leg compared to a 60 minute practice session on my classical guitar on my left in the classic position. I am concerned that my usual steel string technique may not be compatible with building a proper classical guitar technique. Hope that makes sense... Thoughts?

[Bern]

IMO, stick with the classical technique and body position.

[rick-slo]

I play both. I play with classical guitar hand positions but hold the guitar on my right leg. There are some differences you need to adjust for, such as string tension and string flexibility, string spacing, and sensitivity to angle of pick attack. You can go back and forth between nylon and steel string guitars though I would suggest to be able to play classical guitar at the highest level you would be better off just playing a classical guitar (and probably just one classical guitar).

[flagstaffcharli]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I play both. I play with classical guitar hand positions but hold the guitar on my right leg. There are some differences you need to adjust for, such as string tension and string flexibility, string spacing, and sensitivity to angle of pick attack. You can go back and forth between nylon and steel string guitars though I would suggest to be able to play classical guitar at the highest level you would be better off just playing a classical guitar (and probably just one classical guitar).

This is sort of how I see it. I think what I am wrestling with is this knowledge that I want to play classical guitar, but that I need to accept that my other musical pursuits are going to work against doing it properly. For what it's worth, I am not going to take my steel string and play it from a classical position. That won't work for me. It has me thinking I should just drop the classical down into that position and approach it a little less seriously.

[Special B]

I don't think that playing on steel strings will throw you off your classical practice too much. Even in the 3:1 ratio you stated, as long as you keep up with your nylon practice, you will progress. Just make sure to really focus on your classical playing for that 1 hour. One of the most important things to developing good classical RH technique is to really listen to yourself and your tone.

Eventually, I think you will start to see your steel playing change and evolve as you get more comfortable with the classical technique. The ideas and "rules" behind the classical right-hand techniques are very sound, logical, and proven. That is not to say there is any problem with how you play steel strings, but as you develop muscle memory with your classical technique, your steel playing will at least have a bigger bag of tricks to draw from (i.e. you can do tremolo and rasguedos on your steel strings where you maybe wouldn't have been able to develop them if you only played steel).

Steel and nylon are different enough to require different techniques, but similar enough to compliment each other rather than sabotaging one another (same hand, same tendons, same muscles). This is especially true since you have a teacher to help you evaluate your technique and tone and prevent you from developing bad habits.

Originally Posted by flagstaffcharli

This is sort of how I see it. I think what I am wrestling with is this knowledge that I want to play classical guitar, but that I need to accept that my other musical pursuits are going to work against doing it properly. For what it's worth, I am not going to take my steel string and play it from a classical position. That won't work for me. It has me thinking I should just drop the classical down into that position and approach it a little less seriously.

Give it time. I started on steel acoustic and electric (but I always played fingerstyle; always hated picks). When I started learning classical, I approached classical one way, and steel another way. I practiced steel to nylon in about a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. Not as much of a difference as the 3:1 that you stated, but I definitely played steel more. The two disciplines didn't sabotage each other at all. But over time, as I got better at classical, my steel string playing changed without me even knowing it. One day I realized that I had been playing my steel string guitars and even electrics and bass in the classical position. I always fingerpicked, but learning classical made me a better fingerpicker on steel strings and even bass. Getting used to the classical position made my left hand work better. Going back to the folk position now shows me how inferior it is. It causes more bending in the wrist, and there is no getting past how that inhibits your tendons. You don't notice it when it is the way you are used to playing. If you take the time to get used to the classical position, you may find yourself playing that way even on your dreads, and not ever wanting to go back.

I would recommend against playing a classical guitar in the "folk" position. There is no advantage to doing it that way; it will only hold you back and make it harder (especially with the wider fretboard). If you do not like the common classical position (on left leg, with footstool) try some other classical positions, such as using a guitar support on either leg, raising the right leg with a footstool or by crossing your legs (might be a good compromise for you since the guitar's waist still goes on your right leg, but it is raised higher), or propping the guitar up on the right leg but on the lower bout, not in the waist; this is what I do on all guitars; classical, steel, and solid (see Scott Tennant for a visual example). Most classical teachers will support your use of any of these positions, but not the folk position (guitar waist on right leg, foot on ground not raised)... for good reason. It's all about raising the guitar up, and making the neck point up diagonally, rather than horizontally). It takes getting used to, but is worth it; it helps both hands work better.

The great thing about learning classical is that it can make you better at steel, electric, and even bass. It can evolve your playing in ways you may not even realize. Approaching classical from a more casual perspective (i.e. playing it like you play a steel) won't benefit you nearly as much.

In the end, you are the musician/artist, and you have to do what works for you, your body, and your style. But the classical position and RH techniques are very logical and are designed to make your hands work optimally. You should at least give it a really serious try and then decide from there. For me, learning the classical method(s) (which includes thumb behind the neck, not over the top) changed/improved my playing on dreads, strats, and even electric basses in ways I could never have imagined. I just wanted to learn Recuerdos. I got a lot more out of it. When I try to play the way I used to play, I can see and feel how much it was holding me back.

[scottishrogue]

When I switch from a steel-string folk acoustic guitar (in a standing position) to playing a classical guitar in a sitting position, I have to make some adjustments, but it's never been a big problem for me. Hand positioning (both left & right) is far more critical when playing a classical guitar, as the guitar is held differently, with the neck raised, and the lower bout centered. You can play a steel-string in a classical position, but you can't play a classical guitar correctly from a different position, with the neck closer to level.

Glen

[wcap]

I play both classical and steel string guitar. I use classical technique on both classical and steel string guitar. I play both sorts of guitars with very very similar technique, though the attack is a little different on classical guitar - one needs a better attack with nylon strings to get really good tone and volume (but I find this pretty much gives me best sound on steel string as well). I play fingerstyle 12 string guitar with classical technique as well.

You can decide whether or not you like the sounds I'm getting - I have both classical and steel string fingerstyle recordings (and a recently uploaded 12 string recording) up on YouTube (see link below). (And though I normally play 5-string banjo with picks, the three banjo recordings I have up on YouTube were also played pretty much using classical guitar technique).

For whatever it might be worth, when other guitar players hear me play fingerstyle steel string in person I frequently get comments/compliments on my tone, and I really think whatever I have achieved that is good on steel string guitars has come to a large degree from applying classical guitar technique to my playing across the board.


I appreciate and respect that different guitar players have different preferred ways of playing (and I utilize different approaches sometimes myself), but I never have understood the resistance by some steel string guitar players to the idea of using classical technique on steel string guitars.

[Dave T]

I've always wondered why so many Flamenco artists play in a much more relaxed position, sometimes even changing position in the middle of a song? They play with many of the same techniques as classical guitarists, yet they aren't anchored to a specific seated posture.

Dave

[Bern]

I truly believe that the classical position is the optimum position to play in...it's a more consistent playing position.
Of course, do I still use it ? I wish I could answer, yes...

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Dave T

I've always wondered why so many Flamenco artists play in a much more relaxed position, sometimes even changing position in the middle of a song? They play with many of the same techniques as classical guitarists, yet they aren't anchored to a specific seated posture.

Dave

I will say that I tend to not be as fixed in my posture as perhaps some classical guitarists would think I should be, though the position I hold the guitar in (neck angled up) and my right hand technique tends to be pretty stable and consistent across the board when playing and sort of classical or fingerstyle.