Action question...

[s2y]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I get this - but given that my natural preference is for a low action, I would hate to go this way only to find out it is not congruent with the style I aspire to play. This is why I am trying to find out if there is a type of setup that is used by players of this type of music.

I would guess they have lower action. It would be very difficult to play like that with high action.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by PerryE

One thing I am wondering over is if crappy technique can cause fret buzz even if the guitar is set up really well? I was thinking of parameters like how you use your pick (attach angle etc) for example.

Then the question is if you should have a guitar set up so it plays well for someone with at least intermediate leven and good picking habits or if you have it set up so you can use your less-than-optimum technique without getting fret buzz?

I am thinking that it would be good to get feedback from the guitar that you need to work on something - i.e. the fret buzz tells you to improve picking

On one guitar I sometimes got, not buzz, but sort of a scraping sound that could be mistaken for buzz. It was not there all the time and no one noticed it but me. I couldn't figure it out, nor could the luthier. After a couple of years, I did. It was a smaller bodied instrument than my others and I often found myself playing ahead of the soundhole, then I'd adjust it when I noticed. Well, it seems when I play ahead, it causes angle of my picking (bare fingertips) to change ever so slightly and my nail would rake a little bit along the wound strings instead of just across them. Now, I pay better attention to where my hand is relative to the soundhole and the problem has been solved. But it took a while to figure out as initially I was so sure it was the guitar, not me. (Well, in a way it was the guitar - it was smaller.)

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by s2y

I would guess they have lower action. It would be very difficult to play like that with high action.

Thanks - but dropped tunings could be a problem?

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I’m sorry but I don’t agree. Of course there are individual variations between players and guitars but there are also general guidelines for certain styles (flatpickers = higher / fingerstyle = lower)

What I was asking for was advice on a more specific type of fingerstyle playing that uses a more percussive technique along with frequent use of dropped tunings.

A general guideline is so non-specific as to be next to useless; one man's medium action may be too low or two high for the next guy. Suggestion; take your guitar to your luthier, explain how you play, and sit with him until he sorts your guitar until you're happy. There really are no hard and fast rules when something so personal and subjective is concerned.

[s2y]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Thanks - but dropped tunings could be a problem?

Depends on how hard you play. Will likely need heavier strings for that.

[Mr. Jelly]

I would say a good general guideline would be a measurement of .020" to .022" of the low E string at the first fret. I can't see how that could cause a problem under a hard thick pick attack. I'd think a measurement of .09" of the low E string at the 12th fret would be a good standard. My guess would be that the amount of people wanting higher action would be small compared to the general guitar playing public. Note I don't think the general guitar playing public would have a good understanding of the impact of the numbers I am using.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

I’m sorry but I don’t agree. Of course there are individual variations between players and guitars but there are also general guidelines for certain styles (flatpickers = higher / fingerstyle = lower)

What I was asking for was advice on a more specific type of fingerstyle playing that uses a more percussive technique along with frequent use of dropped tunings.

In a perfect world you'd keep one guitar and always play it with the same strings in the same tuning, but that's not going to happen.

You don't understand what anyone here is saying because you think there's a correlation between what your favorite players use, and your possibly being able to emulate them.

I play fingerstyle in all manner of open tunings, from simple dropped D to C'Vestapol (open D down a whole step), and all of this with D'Addario EJ-16's .012-.053.

My action is basically 1/8"+/-, which is pretty much the max for most flat pick players.

Sometimes the action gets lower when I am in a particular tuning because the relief changes with the tension, but it's meaningless in the scheme of things because during a performance I'll go through 3-4 tuning changes.

But that's me.

When I was young my hero was Nokie Edwards of the instrumental group, The Ventures. I wanted the Mosrite guitar that he played in the worst way......so I got on a bus (I was 15 in 1966) and I went to the local music store that had them in stock.

The salesman handed me the guitar, I plugged it in, but as I started to play it I was aghast: How could anyone play a neck this narrow???

He was still my hero, but I didn't have his hands, etc, and somehow I figured this out without the internet, or putting it up to committee.

The best lessons have been the ones I learned myself because NOBODY can explain it the way I experience it. The phrase 'more than meets the eye' comes to mind, except you substitute 'ears', or 'hands'.

Regards,
Howard
http://howardemerson.com/product/the-wall-talks

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

In a perfect world you'd keep one guitar and always play it with the same strings in the same tuning, but that's not going to happen.



You don't understand what anyone here is saying because you think there's a correlation between what your favorite players use, and your possibly being able to emulate them.



I play fingerstyle in all manner of open tunings, from simple dropped D to C'Vestapol (open D down a whole step), and all of this with D'Addario EJ-16's .012-.053.



My action is basically 1/8"+/-, which is pretty much the max for most flat pick players.



Sometimes the action gets lower when I am in a particular tuning because the relief changes with the tension, but it's meaningless in the scheme of things because during a performance I'll go through 3-4 tuning changes.



But that's me.



When I was young my hero was Nokie Edwards of the instrumental group, The Ventures. I wanted the Mosrite guitar that he played in the worst way......so I got on a bus (I was 15 in 1966) and I went to the local music store that had them in stock.



The salesman handed me the guitar, I plugged it in, but as I started to play it I was aghast: How could anyone play a neck this narrow???



He was still my hero, but I didn't have his hands, etc, and somehow I figured this out without the internet, or putting it up to committee.



The best lessons have been the ones I learned myself because NOBODY can explain it the way I experience it. The phrase 'more than meets the eye' comes to mind, except you substitute 'ears', or 'hands'.



Regards,

Howard

http://howardemerson.com/product/the-wall-talks

Fair comment - thanks Howard

[JayBee1404]

Right on the button, Howard! {{Like}}

[justonwo]

I'd say you're pretty high on the bass side at 0.110". I can play action that high and get a ton of power out of the guitar, but it's not optimal for fingerstyle. I generally like to play with my action on the high side, as I play with fingerpicks and I really lean into the strings. I tend to set the bass side to 0.095" to 0.100" and the treble side somewhere around 0.070" with relief somewhere around 0.004" to 0.005".

I don't know the precise setup of the guys you mentioned, but it really has a lot to do with your style. If you pick hard and need to prevent string buzzing, then you need higher action. The specs I mention should eliminate string buzz if you're heavy handed. If you play with a lighter touch, you can probably take another 0.010" off each side.

I would definitely try to lower things from 0.110", as that's getting up there. I would really try to get the action to the point where you can play without feeling hindered. I like to err on the high side. If you feel you're fighting the action, go lower. I wouldn't pay much attention to what other people are using, frankly.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Hi all

I and am looking for a tone similar to that of players like Dufour and McKee - ringing and resonant with piano like sounds.

The action isn't what's going to get your guitar ringing with piano like sounds. It's the guitar.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

The action isn't what's going to get your guitar ringing with piano like sounds. It's the guitar.

...and how it is played, and by whom