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  #16  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:45 AM
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The only tuner I’ve had fail on me in more than twenty years with multiple guitars was a Waverly. I was dismayed at a high end tuner breaking, but pleased at the good service I received from StewMac in replacing it.

Only open back tuners I have now are Gotoh 510s (yes they make an open back) and I am very happy with them. Don’t know how they compare with Schertlers.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2020, 06:19 AM
Carpinteria Carpinteria is offline
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Thank you for this info about open-back Gotoh 510’s. My last set of Waverly tuners had problems. I’ll give these a try, as I’ve had a great result with the standard 510’s but want a vintage look for my next build.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:43 AM
lt20dbl lt20dbl is offline
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I have five guitars. They vary from 23 years old to four years old. They all came stock with Waverlys. I have managed somehow. No complaints that a little grease couldn't remedy.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:56 AM
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[QUOTE=Jeff Mc;6555456]
Quote:
Originally Posted by theEdwinson View Post
Hey, Bob, I'm glad the Schertler tuners are working well for you on your new Zephyr 00. I'm with you-- the Gotoh 510 (mini) is my standard tuner for solid headstocks, and my Omega open headstock. I've used at least a hundred sets of them, and never once encountered a single tuner with slop in the action. Every single one has been perfect. I haven't used that many sets of the Schertlers, but the same holds true-- every one of them so far has had super precise action. And they look great- sort of a cross between vintage and modern.

I guess I don't pay that much attention to the tuners, but my purchase last year had Gotoh 510s. I had to make almost a full turn of the G string tuner before it would engage. I sent the company an email. They said they couldn't help but referred a US distributor to contact. He couldn't/wouldn't do anything either. No one has one treble side tuner laying around and the company wouldn't do anything. The only solution that they offered was for me to buy a full set of tuners. Some customer service!
That’s too bad. I’ve done at least 6-8 Gotoh upgrades with the 510’s on guitars I have owned and it’s always been a big improvement in performance and ease of use plus I like the aesthetic of the Gotoh’s. I always bought mine from Stew-Mac and I believe if I had any issue, they would immediately take care of it.
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lt20dbl View Post
I have five guitars. They vary from 23 years old to four years old. They all came stock with Waverlys. I have managed somehow. No complaints that a little grease couldn't remedy.
I’ve never had a Waverly fail, I’ve just always noticed they feel much tighter than other tuners and that simply makes it harder to tune a guitar.
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  #21  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:40 AM
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I have three guitars with Waverly tuners (two with single gear units & one with three on a plate) and three guitars with Schaller GrandTune single gear units.
  • The Schaller GrandTunes have been consistently smoother and trouble free whereas two of my Waverly tuners have a single string that is tighter to turn than the rest.
  • It is due to what Bruce said. The ID clearance on the individual bushing is allowing the tuner post OD to deflect against the ID of the bushing under string load. The Waverly design has inadequate support of the post to address their bushing manufacturing tolerance.
  • It is cheaper for them to send out replacements than to fix the design and or manufacturing tolerance.
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Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 11-21-2020 at 01:18 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:07 PM
Jwills57 Jwills57 is online now
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I don't doubt Bruce's analysis, but I just think Waverly Tuners have the right look and feel for "traditional" American guitars, which I what I like to play. I've personally never had any trouble with any of the Waverly Tuners on any of my instruments, or at least not that I notice.
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  #23  
Old 11-21-2020, 01:19 PM
drive-south drive-south is offline
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The folks on the gear page seem to favor Hipshot tuners for electrics. They look like great tuners but I'm not a fan of their universal mounting plates.

They make open gear as well as sealed tuners, in both locking and non-locking styles.
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  #24  
Old 11-21-2020, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theEdwinson View Post
Hey, Bob, I'm glad the Schertler tuners are working well for you on your new Zephyr 00. I'm with you-- the Gotoh 510 (mini) is my standard tuner for solid headstocks, and my Omega open headstock. I've used at least a hundred sets of them, and never once encountered a single tuner with slop in the action. Every single one has been perfect. I haven't used that many sets of the Schertlers, but the same holds true-- every one of them so far has had super precise action. And they look great- sort of a cross between vintage and modern.

Sorry to say, that is emphatically NOT my experience with Waverly tuners. I have used maybe a dozen sets, at customers' request, everything from the plain Nickel ones to the three-on-a-plate, engraved, fancy-schmancy $450 ones. And usually, at least five out of the six in a set have an unacceptable amount of slop. Like, 1/4 turn before the gear engages the worm. That's pathetic. I don't know why anyone accepts this. Considering the high cost of the Waverlys, I think they are a poor value. I agree with Bruce on this. The Waverly's are expensive junk, IMHO.

If you REALLY like that vintage open gear style of the Waverlys, do yourself a favor, and use some Schaller Grand Tunes, or Grover Sta-Tites, or the Gotoh version. ALL of them are better than the Waverlys, and the Grovers and Gotohs cost about half as much as the equivalent Waverlys.
I think you may be able to swap out Waverly’s for the Schertlers also. The hole to hole distance on the mounting screws for both are only .6mm difference. The Waverly’s on my Froggy Bottom H12 at times can feel so tight it feels like I am going to bust a string (even though I know it’s the tuner and not excess string tension).
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Last edited by SprintBob; 11-21-2020 at 07:17 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-21-2020, 04:36 PM
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Smile Hello Stew Mac???

Perhaps someone from SM will see this thread and FINALLY decide to fix this .

We can hope!

Salud

Paul
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  #26  
Old 11-22-2020, 11:26 AM
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While you can change from Waverly to Schertler by reaming the hole out to 10mm exactly, going the other way amounts to an organ transplant. It can be done, but more skill is involved.
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  #27  
Old 11-22-2020, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
While you can change from Waverly to Schertler by reaming the hole out to 10mm exactly, going the other way amounts to an organ transplant. It can be done, but more skill is involved.
I thought the Schallers might be a drop in replacement for the Waverly’s as the screw hole spacing on both is 1” (25.4 mm) but the offset between the tuner shaft and the screw holes is different (14.48 mm versus 15.12 mm) so that might not be worth trying.
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Last edited by SprintBob; 11-22-2020 at 01:25 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2020, 04:17 PM
Burton LeGeyt Burton LeGeyt is offline
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I really like Waverly tuners. I don't like the look of the Schertlers and the sealed Gotoh machines are too heavy for me.

I wasn't impressed with the open back Gotoh's or Grovers although I did see that Gotoh made an open back machine with a screwed on bushing, which I think is a great idea. When I modified some sets and used a Waverly worm and gear I did the same thing.

I too have noticed what Bruce did on the bushings and it is curious. I always use an aftermarket round bushing, and re-machine them to be a better fit so it hasn't been an issue but that it needs to be done does seem strange. Waverlies seem unique in that there is play in the post/body connection- a wavy washer provides the tension but can pretty easily be angled if forced. I've always assumed it (and the loose bushing) allowed the gear to still engage well when the worm/gear connection began to wear but I may be giving them too much credit!

I've never had a Waverly outright fail, but I do notice a slightly different tension tuner to tuner. They are all perfectly operable, just not completely consistent. I can see how that could bother someone but it doesn't bother me.
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2020, 04:53 PM
jimmy bookout jimmy bookout is offline
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I have a set of Schertlers on my Eastman Pagelli and they are, without question (IMO), superior to Waverlies. The Schertlers literally act like Gotoh 510 sealed tuners...smooth as glass, no discernable lash, just top flight.
I have had 2 sets of Waverlies (on 2 different Collings) and both sets were disappointing in their operation.
Bruce is exactly right on the cause of the Waverly binding issue. Both sets I owned had that issue.

PS. I fully understand not wanting to put Schertlers on a "traditional" looking acoustic guitar (like a Franklin as mentioned in this thread). As far sealed Gotoh 510's, there a zillion button options out there...I am NOT a fan of the standard 510 button, it's just very odd to me.
Here's a nice option...small snakewood buttons from John Buscarino. The tuners are Gotoh 510 minis (18:1 ratio) in Cosmo Black and X-Gold (Satin)





Or boxwood buttons from Tone Ninja:
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Last edited by jimmy bookout; 11-30-2020 at 05:02 PM.
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2020, 05:22 PM
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I have a customer who owns nine of my guitars, including one I haven't delivered yet. They have 4 different kinds of tuners, all the open backs mentioned as well as Gotoh's butterbean (which I think is at least as good as the other butter beans, and comes in an attractive antique gold finish). He has specified Schertler's on the new build, and I did not prod him.
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