Question about tops

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

How about this?

I am still developing my ear to pick up the tonal properties of acoustics so take what I say with a grain of salt. I have been listening to a few Ovation recordings, knowing the limitations of youtube, and what I think I am hearing is a lack of resonances that make the sound interesting. Sort of in the way a lattice braced guitar sounds smoother than, say an X braced guitar.

And it would make sense given the back is a bowl shape made out of composites so you would not get any contribution to the sound from the back. The top being a heavier wood would cause any resonances to be lower in height having a smaller Q (less peaky resonance). To me it sounds partway between a lively acoustic guitar and an electric guitar unplugged, ignoring the volume difference. It sound 'clean'. Not used to that I guess.

[kydave]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

This thread appears to be mistitled. Rather than "Question About Tops", it would have been more apt to title it, "I like my bubinga topped Ovation, do you?". Because that is the underlying theme here.

I like the look of your bubinga top. I am glad that you enjoy your guitar.

Let's move on. Not much more to see here.

Rich,

The only content in his original post IS:

What do you think about Bubinga as a top tonewood?

So I think we've been on pretty solid ground, threadwise...

Happy Holidays! Nice weather, eh?

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by kydave

Rich,

The only content in his original post IS:



So I think we've been on pretty solid ground, threadwise...

Happy Holidays! Nice weather, eh?

Fair enough. I retract my prior post.

Yes, nice to see some sun! Hope you and everyone else) have a fine holiday!

[printer2]

Originally Posted by kydave

Why not spruce? Why would a travel guitar be particularly susceptible to top dents? Cedar is one of the softer tops woods somewhat commonly used, but much less so than spruce, so I'm curious as to the comparison.

Why not use (Any other wood) as a top wood when dents are your concern?

And if using (Any other wood) why not use one better suited for the application of top wood? As Charles says, there's a reason people generally don't use ebony and rosewood and other woods for tops...

If you're building a guitar not primarily associated with its unplugged sound qualities, and looks is your priority, sure... the bubinga makes sense.

Why not spruce? Used cedar as an example of a wood that dents if you just look at it the wrong way. Also the guitar less than two feet away from me has a cedar top so the combination of the two thoughts caused me to write cedar. From your question of why would a travel guitar be more susceptible to top dents I am assuming you have a case and take good care of your instrument. I am thinking more in terms of a guitar that you throw in the back of the car and take out camping.

Building a guitar out of cedar and building one out of spruce, you have to take greater care with the cedar one in order for the top to not get marked up. It may not seem that much softer to the casual eye but it is enough difference that the cedar top will look more worn than a spruce top given rough treatment.

I never said we should use a different wood in order to limit dents in a top, but if we did the Bubinga top on the Ovation would probably pick up less dents. If I were to pick a wood to limit dents in a top I might pick Fir. Or if you really want a stout top you can go for a hardwood such as Birch. I have an all Birch guitar that I do not like the sound of and one day might put a spruce top on it. But I also have enough Birch to make a guitar with. I was wondering what to do with it, maybe you gave me an idea.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

This thread appears to be mistitled. Rather than "Question About Tops", it would have been more apt to title it, "I like my bubinga topped Ovation, do you?". Because that is the underlying theme here.

I like the look of your bubinga top. I am glad that you enjoy your guitar.

Let's move on. Not much more to see here.

First of all, it is a question about tops, so it's not mistitled.

Second, no one cares if I like bubinga or not, so why put it as a title?

Third, this is not about my guitar, but I HAVE to make reference to it because 1) is a guitar that I own or use 2) its top is bubinga. Simple.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by kydave

That guitar also exhibits the similar tone (or lack of tone) which failed to impress me in the first video.

Nothing wrong with that - people obviously like different sounds. But that does not have the richness that I expect, want and demand of a steel string guitar.

That type of top wood is more suited to furniture, IMO. But then, I like extremely even grained spruce, in all its varieties.

But that is merely one guy's opinion.

OK, I get it. Richness=woodiness.

Hey, my favorite top wood will always be cedar, which is way different from bubinga. But it's good to have different and (for some people) wacky alternatives, like carbon fiber, fiberglass or. . . hardwoods like bubinga. After all, who has the authority to say certain tone is good or bad?

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

After all, who has the authority to say certain tone is good or bad?

But you gave us the authority to say if one tone is good or bad by asking us.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

After all, who has the authority to say certain tone is good or bad?

That question is easily answered: I do. I could name a few others.

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

I own an Ovation with a spruce top (6768), but it's a deep bowl, so comparing both of them based on tops is tricky, since the bowls are different. Even with that, it's kind of a no-brainer to recognize that the spruce one is warmer tone-wise, regardless of the bowl. The bubinga has better string definition and clarity, more treble, kind of stiffer than spruce, but it's not harsh to my ears. And it sustains like crazy

Amazing that a super shallow, bubinga-topped, Ovation can sustain like crazy. Sounds like a keeper.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by ukejon

Amazing that a super shallow, bubinga-topped, Ovation can sustain like crazy. Sounds like a keeper.

Sustain is easy when the string is terminated on either end by a large mass.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

That question is easily answered: I do. I could name a few others.

Maybe "determine" instead of "say" is what I'm trying to say.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by printer2

But you gave us the authority to say if one tone is good or bad by asking us.

Mmm, maybe I should've written "determine" instead of "say."

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by printer2

Sustain is easy when the string is terminated on either end by a large mass.

I think there is more to it than that. In any event, I've owned Ovations and liked them but never thought of them as having impressive sustain.

[kydave]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Mmm, maybe I should've written "determine" instead of "say."

I think history has already determined the tone question to a large degree. Martin is the oldest and most copied and referred to reference for great tone; Ovation was justly known for fast, electric guitar-like necks and being one of the most early producers of factory acoustic-electric guitars. Acoustic tone was rarely a prime reason people attributed to being interested in them.

They are also out of business.

Maybe if they'd stuck to spruce...



p.s. I'd also be pretty comfortable using Howard's criteria for tone over that of folks who value bubinga for a top wood. His criteria would be a lot closer to mine.

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by Guitarplayer_PR

Maybe "determine" instead of "say" is what I'm trying to say.

Same answer.

Originally Posted by kydave

p.s. I'd also be pretty comfortable using Howard's criteria for tone over that of folks who value bubinga for a top wood. His criteria would be a lot closer to mine.

You're setting a low bar.