Large sound hole dreadnaught

[DownUpDave]

Hi, not sure if this is the appropriate sub forum to pose this question.

I will be having a dreadnaught built, spruce and rosewood. The builder has mentioned he has done large sound hole builds. I have never played one, played plenty of Martin D28, 35, HD28 etc and liked them. What sonic difference would the large sound hole make, I get conflicting opinions, hence my question to you experts.

I am not a bluegrass flat picker type, don’t need a cannon or something to cut through the mix. I play solo, mostly strumming and singing, some fingerpicking. Was thinking Sitka spruce over EIR but not sure about a large sound hole or standard. Thanks in advance for your help.

[Mark Hatcher]

There are a number of things that influence an ideal size for a sound hole such as:
The body air volume
The position of the sound hole
Stiffness and weight of the top and back
The body profile

My suggestion would be to ask the luthier why he would recommend a large sound hole and what he does to optimize for that or what his experience is on the differences when used on his dred design.

m

[nacluth]

Dave, the typical thought is that the tighter the soundhole the more bass response. Bluegrass players especially (though plenty of other folk too) say that a wider soundhole will create a brighter tonality and provide more volume for lead playing. It seems to be a big request for players who want to cut through a crowd.

Whether this is good for you or not will be up to your ear, but from your description, it doesn’t seem like you are the target audience. However some people just prefer brighter guitars. I would recommend going to a good guitar store (or YouTube) and see if they have anything like a Tony Rice Martin with an oversized soundhole. You might like it.

Sitka/EIR is a great combo.

[DownUpDave]

Thank you both for your answers, they have been quite helpful.

Nacluth it sounds like (pun intended) you have hit the heart of the matter, a brighter tone and more volume. This is not something I need or even like, I prefer a warm tone. I also don’t have a super powerful singing voice and have trouble singing over really loud guitars. The “standard” D28, HD28 tone suites my ear and taste just fine.

[Tim McKnight]

Enlarging the sound hole diameter over 4” on a dred will raise the Helmholtz frequency of the sound box. This will typically raise the treble response and diminish the bass response. Dreds typically are bass biased so this (can) make them more balanced and less boomy. These comments are generalities and can be worked around in many ways to shape the tone to your liking based on the skill set of the builder. If you are in close proximity to your builder perhaps they have an example that you can test drive before making your decision final?

[DownUpDave]

I understand why the larger sound hole would be less boomy and increase the treble. I read it increases midrange…..then I read it gives the midrange a cut, conflicting statements/opinions.

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

I understand why the larger sound hole would be less boomy and increase the treble. I read it increases midrange…..then I read it gives the midrange a cut, conflicting statements/opinions.

That is why I suggested you work this out with the luthier doing your work rather than trying to second guess what the results might be.

As the term says Midrange is a range. It’s possible a sound hole change can both muffle the perception of the lower midrange while simultaneously giving the upper mids a kick. If your luthier is suggesting a large sound hole then simply ask him why.

If you are having trouble with that basic kind of discussion with your luthier or if he cannot give you a reasonable answer then you should really be questioning whether you two are a good match.

[J Patrick]

…the Santa Cruz Tony Rice standard I own has the enlarged sound hole….it does exhibit perhaps a bit less low end but it has adequate bass response and gets the good woof and thump when you lay into it…..its not crazy loud but I do think you can get more volume with a lighter hand than some Dreadnoughts…..I don’t know if that’s due the enlarged sound hole or not…..its not a super light build but it has quick response I associate with lightly built guitars….

[DownUpDave]

Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher

That is why I suggested you work this out with the luthier doing your work rather than trying to second guess what the results might be.

As the term says Midrange is a range. It’s possible a sound hole change can both muffle the perception of the lower midrange while simultaneously giving the upper mids a kick. If your luthier is suggesting a large sound hole then simply ask him why.

If you are having trouble with that basic kind of discussion with your luthier or if he cannot give you a reasonable answer then you should really be questioning whether you two are a good match.

Thank you for your answers. I do have a good relationship with the builder. I am just asking the question here to help further my knowledge on this issue.

[Mark Hatcher]

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

Thank you for your answers. I do have a good relationship with the builder. I am just asking the question here to help further my knowledge on this issue.

Ok, as was previously stated if the hole is bigger you hear more treble, if it is smaller it gets more bass sounding. This is accomplished by a subtractive effect. Bigger takes bass away, smaller takes treble away.
There is a Goldilocks range where you are not muffling the sound with the sound hole. I don’t believe changing the sound hole diameter is a good way to get to the sound you want from a guitar other than to tune it to the ideal Goldilocks range.

There are a lot of ways to get more bass that don’t involve choking the treble.

Luckily this is an easy thing to try at home. Tape something hard over part of the sound hole on a guitar you are already familiar with and see if this is a way you want to get to more bass.

[redir]

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

Thank you both for your answers, they have been quite helpful.

Nacluth it sounds like (pun intended) you have hit the heart of the matter, a brighter tone and more volume. This is not something I need or even like, I prefer a warm tone. I also don’t have a super powerful singing voice and have trouble singing over really loud guitars. The “standard” D28, HD28 tone suites my ear and taste just fine.

I kind of thought the same thing till I got one. I have a large sound hole Dred built by Don Sharp and it pretty much is spot on to most comments here. Dreds are boomy but this one is balanced. I don't know that it is much more louder than other dreds I have but it definitely doesn't have that boom-chucka dred tone which I like. And I find it my far to be the best finger picking dred I've played probably because it's balanced.

It's a bit tricky to buy a guitar on commission, not getting to play one first. But there are other ways to get those tones you want too and if you trust your luthier then try and work that out with them first.

[Uncle Pen]

My only experience owning a guitar with an oversized soundhole was a Larrivee SD-03R (12 fret dread). It was a great guitar once I figured out how it ticked and I learned how to appreciate it. However, it gave me fits in the beginning. The G string sounded very pronounced and overbearing to my ear. A nut replacement from tusq to bone helped (or maybe my ear just gave up and got along with it). I don't have experience with this same guitar without a large soundhole, but my experience appears to align with comments above about audible shifts in frequency ranges heard.

To give an example, here is a video of a Larrivee SD with the same architecture, tonewoods, and enlarged soundhole. See if you can hear a pronounced G string.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBJngY0-u5s

Also, Bryan Kimsey has some insight on enlarging soundholes, which might shed further light...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z102gD4HLyg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTksqfBtap0&t=75s