Changing the chords on purpose

[Kittoon]

I “down-shift” 3 to find the relative minor chord sometimes when a major chord just doesn’t sound quite right. As stated earlier “Dmajor” to (as you did) “Bm” Sometimes, up-shift 3 to go from minor to major!

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

For years I substituted Fm7 for the F chord (until I finally mastered the dreaded F)
Only another guitarist would hear the difference anyway.

You found Fm7 easier than F??? What shape? (Do you really mean "Fm7"?)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

Occasionally I'll find a song that just feels better to me if I change a chord, or add one.

For instance. Every chord sheet of Bad Moon Rising has this:

G..................................D
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

A.........G...............D
There's a bad moon on the rise.

But for some reason it sounds better to me with a Bm in it:

G..................................Bm
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

or:

G..................................D..................Bm
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

Similarly, I want to plant an A chord near the end of the chorus of "City of New Orleans":

........G...................D...........Em.......A.........F.........C.......D
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans,...I'll be gone five hundred miles...

Usually I feel like I can do what I want with a song, but I'm wondering if I'm in a small minority here. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

For me it depends on the song.

Personally I wouldn't do anything like that on Bad Moon Rising, The minor chords "soften" the sound too much. I much prefer the tough, no-nonsense trio of major chords. (Fancy chords and substitutions have their place, but I'm a purist when it comes to classic rock'n'roll.)

As for City of New Orleans, your A major is the right chord (more or less)! A7 is right there in Arlo Guthrie's version anyway. Any chart that just shows Em for those two bars has deaf ears. The bass runs down E-D on the Em to land on C# on the A7 chord.
So I'm guessing that's why you put it there - your ears (subconscious memory of the song) are telling you to, even when the chart isn't.
Personally, I dont like the change from A7/C# to F. I appreciate the sequence on the last line (F - C/E - D - G), but that jump of the bass from C#-F sticks out like a sore thumb for me. Then again, I'm sure many other people like that change, perhaps for the same reason (unexpected, dramatic).
BTW, I know there is a suitable theoretical "explanation" for it. Still doesn't work for me. So - would I change the chord? I don't think so. Firstly it has to harmonise the F of the vocal. Dm and Bb would also do that, and be more logical (familiar) following A. It would also give you that classic rock sequence Bb-C-D, albeit resolving to G at the end. But it still seems weird. So I think I'd stick with Arlo's weirdness rather than risk my own.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

Occasionally I'll find a song that just feels better to me if I change a chord, or add one.

For instance. Every chord sheet of Bad Moon Rising has this:

G..................................D
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

A.........G...............D
There's a bad moon on the rise.

But for some reason it sounds better to me with a Bm in it:

G..................................Bm
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

or:

G..................................D..................Bm
Don't go 'round tonight, well it's bound to take your life

Similarly, I want to plant an A chord near the end of the chorus of "City of New Orleans":

........G...................D...........Em.......A.........F.........C.......D
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans,...I'll be gone five hundred miles...

Usually I feel like I can do what I want with a song, but I'm wondering if I'm in a small minority here. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

For CoNO, I play:
…………...G..........……….......D.............Em...Em7 ...A..…......Bb......…..C...........D
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans,...…...I'll be gone five hundred miles...

Don't remember where I saw those chords - a tab long before the internet - and I like the A-Bb-C-D progression's sound.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by JonPR

You found Fm7 easier than F??? What shape? (Do you really mean "Fm7"?)

Forgive me, I meant "F Major 7", the three finger open chord.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

For CoNO, I play:
…………...G..........……….......D.............Em...Em7 ...A..…......Bb......…..C...........D
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans,...…...I'll be gone five hundred miles...

Don't remember where I saw those chords - a tab long before the internet - and I like the A-Bb-C-D progression's sound.

I'm going to try that. Thanks for the tip.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by JonPR

As for City of New Orleans, your A major is the right chord (more or less)! A7 is right there in Arlo Guthrie's version anyway. Any chart that just shows Em for those two bars has deaf ears. The bass runs down E-D on the Em to land on C# on the A7 chord.
So I'm guessing that's why you put it there - your ears (subconscious memory of the song) are telling you to, even when the chart isn't.

More often than not, I don't even look up chord sheets; I'm primarily an ear player and rely on memory of the song to work out chords. But sometimes I feel conflicted about the chords I choose, as in these two examples, and I'll go look up chords to confirm or deny my choices.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Forgive me, I meant "F Major 7", the three finger open chord.

Ah-ha! (I guessed, actually, just thought I'd check )

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

For CoNO, I play:
…………...G..........……….......D.............Em...Em7 ...A..…......Bb......…..C...........D
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans,...…...I'll be gone five hundred miles...

Don't remember where I saw those chords - a tab long before the internet - and I like the A-Bb-C-D progression's sound.

Interesting! Just what I thought of above. I don't suppose you know which version it came from?

[Brent Hahn]

When Arlo did it he changed both the chords and the melody significantly in that one spot from Goodman's original. Goodman's being more traditional and folky. Reverse-engineering, I suspect that Arlo, being more steeped in folk tradition than most people, originally only changed it up on the very last pass as a way to end the thing. But some record producer or someone said "that's hooky -- do it every time!" So Arlo, needing radio play for something that wasn't spoken-word and eleven minutes long, did it every time. And then so did Willie, probably never having heard Goodman's. And now so does everyone else.

I bet Goodman grumbled under his breath about it every time he pulled a check out of the mailbox.

[mr. beaumont]

As one of those dang jazz guys, yes, I change the chords to tunes all the time. Most of the time to create movement in a static section of a tune. It's funny, I swear playing jazz makes you want to add chords to simple tunes and actually TAKE CHORDS AWAY from complex ones--at least when soloing.

The context is the most important thing. There's a time to change, a time to definitely NOT change. Every situation is different, I guess.

I would NOT throw that Bm into Bad Moon Rising, personally. That's not really adding anything, it's just changing how the melody note functions against the harmony, and to my ears, it adds nothing.

As for "Somewhere," if we're talking about the last "Some" before the last "where," I'd harmonize that with a major chord a full step below where I was finishing. I'll sit with an instrument later, but something tells me I might put the bass note of the last chord under that triad...so C/D to Dmajor to end...

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Forgive me, I meant "F Major 7", the three finger open chord.

I did the same thing when I was first learning. Gradually I learned to hold B and E with one finger, which I remember being insanely difficult at the time.

Then I learned the four-finger version with 3 and 4 on the A and D strings. Then I learned to barre it, and finally I learned to use my thumb to hold the low E.

Now I alternate between those last three as convenience dictates.

One of my co-workers is teaching two others guitar. One day when he couldn't make it, I took over the lesson, and it really brought home the memories of being a beginner myself, all those years ago. Just strumming rhythmically, something most of us probably think is too simple to bother with, can be a problem for a beginner, and the F chord seems like an impossible dream at that point.

[Willie_D]

Check out how the Lumineers changed Subterranean Homesick Blues to a minor key. It works surprisingly well.

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I would NOT throw that Bm into Bad Moon Rising, personally. That's not really adding anything, it's just changing how the melody note functions against the harmony, and to my ears, it adds nothing.

I hear, a Bm rising... Darn floaters won't flush.

I literally was not sure whether the original had the Bm or not. I played it both ways and couldn't decide what was right, that's why I looked it up in the end. Not sure now what I'll settle on.

Sobering to think that song is over fifty years old.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by dwasifar

I hear, a Bm rising... Darn floaters won't flush.

I literally was not sure whether the original had the Bm or not. I played it both ways and couldn't decide what was right, that's why I looked it up in the end. Not sure now what I'll settle on.

Sobering to think that song is over fifty years old.

The thing that blows me away is that was my favorite song in the world when I was a little kid, and it was already (but only) 15 years old...

Weird when I was a kid in the 80's, the late 60's seemed so far in the past...and now in 2019 I'm much further away from the 80's than that...yet I remember my dad having that CCR tape in his Ford Fairmont like it was yesterday.

Perspective. Yikes.