band = hard work

[bagelsgirl]

I posted this somewhere else on the net. Discuss!

I knew it was going to be hard work putting a band together, and I'm finding it to be even harder than I had imagined!

I have never played in a group but have done a solo for many many years. So even with my performance experience, and having found some very good players who are excited about doing it - and doing homework on the material and coming to rehearsals with a lot of preparation and good attitude - this is is just a really huge thing to try to do!

First of all, you have to work out the arrangements and make millions of decisions. As a solo I played things in all kinds of wacky keys and left out lead breaks, etc... So I'm practicing stuff, new songs and new arrangements of the old ones, I'm making tons of CDs - reference CDs of original versions and also of our practice sessions - (just transferring the practice cassettes from cassette to digital recorder to computer to CD is time consuming - too bad I don't have a better system).

Secondly, not only do I want the music to be tight, I am concerned about our song choices being "right" - I want it to be marketable and be what a crowd wants to hear, not just what the band wants to play, you know? You'd think my years of experience reading crowds would help, and I guess it does - but it is just still quite a lot of work to think it through. Luckily this group of people seems to be on the same page regarding material they like to play, and I do think the stuff we are going to be doing will be recognizeable, well received and danceable enough. I also think that when the band is having fun and it shows, that is a plus for sure. So we will have that going for us.

Next, there is the matter of getting the P.A. together and the sound right. It's a whole different ballgame than when you play as a solo. Between us we have about three separate smaller sound systems. But to figure out if one is sufficient sound for the house, how to set up what, as monitors, etc ... I'm gonna have to have good monitors, this much I know that I can't compromise on... in this area, I know I can get some input from my bandmates, as they have all played in many bands - I just haven't. Ever. And that makes it a bit of a foreign territory for me. I do believe I know good sound when I hear it. What I don't know is how bands put together combinations of equipment - and I do know that people all have their opinions on what works and what doesn't. I guess we'll just have to take an inventory of what we have and see what works, buy something if we need to, and use all of our ears, and their experience - and cross that bridge in a couple of weeks when the first gig approaches...

Then, I feel a bit of pressure here to break out of the gate sounding really good. I know it takes a few live gigs to really tighten up and stuff, and that's cool, I'm not gonna be anal about it if it isn't perfect or anything - but just because I am already a known solo act - I really don't feel like we have the luxury of being a "beginner" band, or fumbling through any part of it, you know - like you might have if you started out doing this as a kid. Not that I have doubts about how we will sound because everyone is working very hard and everyone involved is an accomplished musician ... I'm just saying, I feel it really has to be high quality for us to quickly get some kind of momento going - and that does put a slight bit of pressure on...

It can't be harder when you are a kid starting a band. Or maybe in some ways, it is - Yeah, If I was in high school or hadn't played out much before, I wouldn't feel as much pressure to be such high quality right away. But as kids you don't have the experience, and maybe you don't have the best chops (maybe??) and maybe you don't have much money or any p.a. equipment ... you have to start from scratch. I guess I should be grateful to be at the starting point I am and see the plusses (stage experience and connections, good serious players, some equipment).

I guess there are hurdles any time you attempt to do something like this...

Anyway, I'm just venting a bit. It's a little stressful, but it is good stress. And my excitement is higher than any anxiety I might have about it. I just thought I would post, see what anyone might feel like posting in the way or comments or helpful tips ...

[Bob Womack]

Successful, cheerful compromise, give and take, and patience, are the grease of the band experience that make it move along smoothly. After that, you need practically unlimited energy as the fuel. In my opinion, bands need more grease than fuel.

While the spotlight is always on you in a solo experience, the musical complexity of playing well with a band is higher by an order of magnitude. You need a good metronome in the drummer, but one who can play with feeling as well, then everyone else must surrender to him as the clock or it quickly becomes unmanageable. By the way, I find being the front man in a power trio the hardest job in the world. You've got the continual spotlight of solo work paired with all the compromise of the band experience.

First of all, you have to work out the arrangements and make millions of decisions. As a solo I played things in all kinds of wacky keys and left out lead breaks, etc...

And wow, it is hard to work up a song with all the parts in place and as high quality as possible - knowing that there aren't any excuses when you've got all the players, isn't it.

Another biggie is division of labor. The arranger may not be the best stage manager. The one who has the connections may not be the best negotiator. Who will be responsible to walk the item through a repair when a power amp or cable dies? In a successful band, you may need a split of the responsibilities or you may find yourself with three players that don't give a flip and one that does. However, the one who ends up taking on much responsibility can quickly be labeled a Nazi or may end up feeling overburdened and under-payed. It's another area for compromise.

Bob

[bernaby]

Looking back on my own experiences and my friends I can say a band is a very hard thing to do right and keep together. Some band members contribute more to different aspects of the bands success (or failure) and it seems that everyone thinks they are being put out more than anyone else. If one person tries to be a leader he often gets accused of being a Nazi. Just getting everyone to agree on what material to play can be a major headache, let alone getting agreement on the arrangements. It really takes a group who can be honest and level headed, who are all willing to give and take. Even then all it takes is one misunderstanding or a change in a members family life to blow the whole structure apart.

Throw in the pressure of scheduling and traveling to and from gigs and it is a hard way to make a living. Most musicians I know at my age have a day job and the music is a sideline. Or they just want to perform because it is in their blood.

[ParleyDee]

Yup, bagelsgirl, everything in your post rings true for me! In my band, everyone pulled their weight in their own way and we had a very good spirit of cooperation but it still needed an organiser (me) and I did a lot to poke the arrangements along as well. All that minutiae of rehearsal tapes and distributing reference recordings and selecting material, yada yada had to be done and it got shared around pretty well but it still ate into my playing time and energy.

And something I didn't anticipate - if you're the one pulling the gig dates and rehearsals together, you often end up knowing (whether you want to or you don't) a lot about everyone's "family issues" ... amazing the number of musos, even working musos bringing home the bacon, that have "unnecessary complications", shall we say, put in their way, that unfairly jam them in a spot between doing the right thing by their gig/rehearsal commitments and keeping the peace elsewhere.

[charlemagne52]

Elizabeth,

I know what you mean about wanting to start strong...but it's definitely a process, just like learning to play solo, and I wouldn't worry too much about everything being right, from the start. My best experiences from bands have been surprises...unanticipated.

That said, everybody needs to be competent and the music and arrangements need to be worked on, to whatever it takes to have fun and not feel embarrassed. It sounds like you have good people to work with, players who are at your level, and sometimes that will take you to an entirely different musical place. I hope this works out for you.

[Compurocker]

Strange of all the bands I have sang for it always seems the one doing the most writing and singing seems to lead the band in their direction of when the sauce is good. Though I have been in some electric guitar driven groups where the guitar player leads the way. I have yet to be in a totally democratic group where every one's opinions and feelings as well as ideas are listened to thought bout discussed and tried...That is a Group! Then there is always the quiet one who you have to drag stuff out of. Often bassists and rhythm guitar players. Not always but often. It always seems the right people end up finding eachother eventually so there can be electricity in the air and two or three of you say at the same time "That's exactly what I meant!" What a beautiful communication medium. It's always the Music that Matters...
It always has it always will and I always want to be a part of it... Even if that means I am lying on my bed lost in my head listening to something that is changing my life for the moment or perhaps the rest of the day...

[trpullen]

If you are the band leader, LEAD! Nothing else will cause frustration like indecision. You can ask for ideas, you can hear the band out on things to try but when it comes down to GO time, you make the call and don't look back.

If you want to play in wacky keys, play in wacky keys. Any band worth their salt can play them that way.

Don't be afraid to delegate. If you don't know much about PA in a band setting, figure out which bandmate does and give them the authority to make decisions. Give them the guidelines you need and let them run with it.

The bassist (not the drummer) is the core of all tempo and "pocket" issues. Make him/her the tempo czar. Drummers will try to play everything too fast. It is the drummer's responsibility to lock in with the bass player.

I'm sure I have more advice but .... that will get you started.

[bagelsgirl]

Thanks, everyone!

And Bob, re:
And wow, it is hard to work up a song with all the parts in place and as high quality as possible - knowing that there aren't any excuses when you've got all the players, isn't it.

Yep! That's quite the challenge. I think you can interpret covers to some extent - but if some signature part isn't there, it sure is obvious!

And re:

Originally Posted by trpullen

If you are the band leader, LEAD! Nothing else will cause frustration like indecision. You can ask for ideas, you can hear the band out on things to try but when it comes down to GO time, you make the call and don't look back.

If you want to play in wacky keys, play in wacky keys. Any band worth their salt can play them that way.

Don't be afraid to delegate. If you don't know much about PA in a band setting, figure out which bandmate does and give them the authority to make decisions. Give them the guidelines you need and let them run with it.

The bassist (not the drummer) is the core of all tempo and "pocket" issues. Make him/her the tempo czar. Drummers will try to play everything too fast. It is the drummer's responsibility to lock in with the bass player.

I'm sure I have more advice but .... that will get you started.

Yeah, I'm trying to take control, and minimize any indecision on my part - I don't want to seem like a dictator but then again, it really is "my" baby - and all the guys seem very enthusiastically on board with that notion - so it's cool -

Lots of people like to talk about how bands should all be democrasies and "equal" - but most people I know who have successful groups take on the leadership role. One of the guys said the same thing at a rehearsal and all agreed - "those bands where no one takes control of the band / rehearsals don't get on as well" -

And I had heard the same about drummers and bass players ... actually what I heard was that drummers all tend to push forward during uptempo numbers and sometimes even slow down during the slower numbers - but this drummer seems pretty solid, and he and the bass player have worked together before and they like each other. Most everything seems real tight - but talking about one looser tune after rehearsal with the bassist, he was saying, 'yeah don't worry - I haven't locked into the right groove on this tune yet - but I will - and when I do I'll be right up (drummer's) (NOSE?? ha ha) and it'll be airtight' -

(I'm just adding a note here, in case it sounded like I was pointing a finger at my drummer re: the tune being "loose" - it wasn't the drummer, the tune was just sort of not tight in general, and then the bass player made that remark, about how bassist and drummers "lock" in together on stuff - )

And re: the wacky keys. For the most part, we are doing them all in my comfort zone. And the guys seem pretty flexible in that way. For a few where it makes a big difference for them, I have moved a half step one way or the other. I do songs in b flat minor and f# minor - and there is no need for unneccessary punishment, if the vocals don't suffer when I shift a hair

[Bern]

Originally Posted by bagelsgirl

Lots of people like to talk about how bands should all be democrasies and "equal" - but most people I know who have successful groups take on the leadership role. )

I don't quite agree. This sort of 'follow the leader' thing has never really worked in the bands I've played in. I've started and joined bands, and, from my experience, the more important aspects are, IMO, open-mindedness, respect other's opinions and equal level or skill of musicianship. The leadership role, I believe, becomes more of a factor as to getting gigs, making demos, etc. (the non-musical tasks) Somebody has to take control as what direction a band should take, but in regards to musical aspects, everyone should be considered an equal cog.
However, if a group is formed purely as a backup band for a featured performer, the objective is to make that performer sound as best as possible. Meaning, even if the band members are not too thrilled about the musical arrangements, their personal objections shouldn't matter.
Maybe Howard Emerson could chime in here, for he had been in Billy Joel's backup band for a while.

[Akubra]

All the bands I play in have written arrangements, with solo space written in the form of chord changes. It helps minimize rehearsal time and organizes everything. Earball rehearsals drive me straight up the wall. Chaos! Egos! Egad! Something that especially gets my goat are those who insist on dead-on record lifts, but expect everyone to simply earball it for themselves. I consider that to be quite rude. If there isn't a chart, you can count on me to play pretty much what I want, within the form. Telling people what to play when there's no written arrangement is pretty bogus, IMHO. But, that's a jazz horn player's perspective, I know that guitar players just plain don't think that way so much, being as how I'm a guitar player too.

It kind of lends itself to the leader question: does the leader act as micro-managing musical director, too? Or just handle the logistics? I tend to regard band leaders in the latter sense.

[ParleyDee]

Originally Posted by Bern

ISomebody has to take control as what direction a band should take, but in regards to musical aspects, everyone should be considered an equal cog.

The two aren't incompatible. I agree with the take-the-lead advice, and my band was a group of equal cogs, all with specific strengths, musical roles and keep-the-show-going jobs. The fact that one person makes a decision in the end doesn't negate the fact that everyone's had a chance for input and has been listened to. With a 7-piece then later 6-piece band as I had, someone has to collate the input and make a decision or you'll never end up with a list of what we're rehearsing this week, never mind an organised playlist for a 3-hour gig.

Personally, if it's working gigging we're talking about rather than recreation, I'd rather be in an effectively-organised band that wasn't going in my preferred musical direction than a laissez-faire one no matter what the material.

When we stopped gigging and just occasionally got together for fun, I dropped the leadership thing ... and you know, even in someone's garage we kinda never got organised to play any more than about three songs without it!

[bagelsgirl]

Originally Posted by Bern

I don't quite agree. This sort of 'follow the leader' thing has never really worked in the bands I've played in. I've started and joined bands, and, from my experience, the more important aspects are, IMO, open-mindedness, respect other's opinions and equal level or skill of musicianship. The leadership role, I believe, becomes more of a factor as to getting gigs, making demos, etc. (the non-musical tasks) Somebody has to take control as what direction a band should take, but in regards to musical aspects, everyone should be considered an equal cog.
However, if a group is formed purely as a backup band for a featured performer, the objective is to make that performer sound as best as possible. Meaning, even if the band members are not too thrilled about the musical arrangements, their personal objections shouldn't matter.
Maybe Howard Emerson could chime in here, for he had been in Billy Joel's backup band for a while.

I understand what you are saying. However - in this case - it seems like an ideal situation. Noboby feels like the un-equal cog, and it seems like anytime I have to make some kind of "executive decision" - it is when the jury is out on the outcome - know what I mean? Meaning anytime I have had to decide anything -opinion was equally split - and everyone seems to be very happy with how things are going -