#16
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Guitar notation is rarely "accurate" as far as voices. To be technically correct, many pieces would need to be 6 voices, with the correct duration of timing for each string. The result would be unreadable.... So we compromise, and the norm is to just use 2 voices. And some just use 1 voice, You can add "let ring" in places as a crude way to add additional info. Scopes tried to add new ways to show duration of middle voices on his Hedges tabs. It was useful to study, but hard to sight read.
Usually when I've been tempted to use a 3rd voice, I refrain in the end, it's just too hard to read. It's frustrating, especially when it means not showing the full duration of the top voice, which is usually the melody, but notation is all about conveying info, so in the end, readability usually rules, at least for me.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#17
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As in my C chord arpeggio (typically a strum) example who would damp each string as the next high string was played to give each note is correct notated duration? Sometimes there are musical terms in a notation referencing things where the notes written don't cover the whole situation.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#18
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It's also one of the reasons he shuns using TAB for his music, even though he admits he could probably sell more if he did. Not because he's a notation snob, which he absolutely isn't, but because he feels that notation, while still not perfect, presents the most complete musical picture in the littlest amount of space. He even experimented with his own version of notation, i.e. using two staffs to split out the top voices from the bass line. He couldn't make any headway with it so he kinda abandoned the idea, or shelved it, at least for commercial purposes. Some of the music I have from him does show voices purposely split out like that. He likes it, and for instructional purposes it works well, but I find it personally more challenging visually to sight read. Then again, he's Andrew York. Not your average human mind. But I don't want to argue with the both of you. I just found it startling, since the thread was about York's music, that an argument was being made to combine separate voices into one separate line, when from a compositional standpoint, those were meant to be played and understood as separate. And if you learn them that way, it becomes easier to play them too. It all ties in musically. In summary, I think Barry was on the right track. At least as far as Andrew York's music was concerned.
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Best regards, Andre Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy. - Paul Azinger "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." – Mark Twain http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann |
#19
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the third voice comments made by the OP of the thread. I compose using treble and bass note choices (much more flexibility in note duration indication for one thing). An example of a tab of mine I posted a link to above in post 15. I think we all get it about this subject. No one is a neophyte here.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 03-17-2024 at 04:31 PM. |
#20
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#21
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Sort of yes and no on a guitar having six voices since it has six strings (usually). In a composition a voice is an independent musical line, not really tied to a particular string. Six voice interesting ones could be possible in a series of block chords like you sometimes get in jazz pieces or more typical chord strumming accompanying a singer. However when in doubt you watch and listen and probably will be alright. Pretty easy to do in this internet age.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 03-18-2024 at 11:42 AM. |
#22
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I read this discussion among you regular posters with interest, as I do a fair amount of tabbing in MuseScore (part of how I learn and practice fingerstyle pieces using the variety of its playback options). If I follow the back and forth (and correct me if I'm mis-representing), the issue seems to revolve around differing conceptual expectations for voicing in the music score. I follow Don Ross's (and presumably others') 2 voice approach: using the software voicing capability primarily as a way of distinguishing finger strokes (voice 1/stems up) from thumb strokes (voice 2/stems down), as opposed to, say, distinguishing melody lines from harmony lines. Granted this can be confusing in trying to interpret a piece you have never heard, but that's a pretty rare situation for me. I encounter the issues with ambiguity in specifying note duration and need for showing lots of rests, as have been mentioned, but accept those as a consequence of how I use voicing. I admire guitarists who can readily decipher everything they need from a fully documented music staff, as York's scores are described, but that's way above my skill level.
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dn402 Last edited by dn402; 04-01-2024 at 10:37 AM. Reason: trying to add clarification |
#23
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This has been a very interesting thread.
I am working on improving my reading of music. I am familiar with the music that was displayed with one and two voices. Could someone be so kind as to post an example of what music with 3 voices looks like?
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Mike B. ______________ Frameworks, Nylon, 2022 |
#24
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See post #7, the notation for Candlelight.
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Barry My SoundCloud page Avalon L-320C, Guild D-120, Martin D-16GT, McIlroy A20, Pellerin SJ CW Cordobas - C5, Fusion 12 Orchestra, C12, Stage Traditional Alvarez AP66SB, Seagull Folk Aria {Johann Logy}: |
#25
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Mike B1: It won't necessarily look different when all the voices are shown on a single staff as they are for guitar. Imagine a vocal piece with soprano, alto and bass parts. In notation software you could enter that as three separate voices (with stems up for the upper 2 and stems down for the bass part) or as two voices, where the soprano and alto lines could be entered as "doubled notes" (like two note chords) in voice 1 with the bass notes as voice 2. A lot of the prior discussion in the thread relates to what to do when the three voices all have different rhythm patterns. Hope this helps.
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dn402 |
#26
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Yes, thanks for the clarification.
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Mike B. ______________ Frameworks, Nylon, 2022 |
#27
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Usually three or more voices indicated in a score for multiple instruments playing such as this link of a condutor's score:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...fa7598a30a1-lq On the other hand the guitar part may be shown with one voice when playing with other instrument(s) such as this violin and guitar duo:
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 04-01-2024 at 06:21 PM. |
#28
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Here is an example of music with 3 distinct voices. It's from Andrew York's piece "Deepening", which I happen to be also revisiting at the moment. I circled each voice in the measures. This is how many of his pieces are composed. Not necessarily always of 3 voices, but independent lines of music that need to be treated as such for proper phrasing of the piece. Notation makes it relatively easy to discern what's going on. It would be difficult to capture all of that in TAB. You would know where to put your fingers, but to play it right would require more knowledge. A lot of his compositional style comes from using these independent voices coming together as a whole. And to know this is the key to making it sound the way it should, or at least giving you a better than decent chance. Here is Deepening played by Andrew York himself. It's a very beautiful piece.
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Best regards, Andre Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy. - Paul Azinger "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." – Mark Twain http://www.youtube.com/user/Gitfiddlemann |
#29
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Thanks to everyone for all of the responses, explanations, and examples!!!
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Mike B. ______________ Frameworks, Nylon, 2022 |