loose X brace-HHG or Titebond

[namrok]

I have a Guild Orpheum built using HHG. Just found out there is a loose X brace. Would it be recommended to use HHG for the repair, or would a titebond type glue be just as good, with zero impact on tone. My guitar tech thinks titebond would be perfectly fine for the repair with no impact on tone vs HHG, but would use HHG if I want it used for the repair. Thoughts?

many thanks!
Dave

[Ben-Had]

Keep it HHG. If the tech is capable there should be no problem applying it and it will bond better to the old glue and brace.

[nikpearson]

HHG has the advantage of being totally reversible using heat and moisture; it also adheres well to itself; any traces of old glue should melt into the new glue. Despite claims to the contrary I don’t think it makes any (noticeable) difference to the sound of an instrument. And it’s also trickier to work with in terms of its short gelling time.

Titebond gives consistently strong joints but doesn’t adhere as well to itself as to wood. I find it easier to use for most tasks.

[Rodger Knox]

Titebond works just as well until you have to clean it off for a repair.

On a guitar built with hide glue, I'd want hide glue on a loose joint repair. Even if it is not better in a practical sense, it's better philosophically and will cause less issue trying to explain it later. That said, if your repairman isn't comfortable and experienced with HHG, I wouldn't want to force it on him. The result might not be what you want. He could get a fresh bottle of Old Brown Glue and use that. It's not hot hide glue, but it is hide glue.

[Quickstep192]

Titebond doesn't really stick very well to glue. It needs direct contact with the wood fibers to make an effective bond. That means removing the brace and cleaning the old glue from both surfaces. For that reason alone, I'd use HHG. And, since HHG will stick to itself, that way should be easier.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Titebond doesn't really stick very well to glue. It needs direct contact with the wood fibers to make an effective bond. That means removing the brace and cleaning the old glue from both surfaces. For that reason alone, I'd use HHG. And, since HHG will stick to itself, that way should be easier.

People keep saying that. It really isn't that true depending upon context.

For the past three decades, I have re-glued loose braces by adding Titebond (and similar aliphatic resin glues) to brace surfaces. I have never had one come loose after gluing. It sticks "well enough" for loose braces and lower-stress gluing surfaces. I don't recommend that for high-stress joints, such as bridges.

I have not attempted to use Titebond on failed hide glue joints.

To attempt to remove a partially loose brace just so that one can clean off the old glue is, in my opinion, a lot of unnecessary work.

Keep in mind that the operative word in hot hide glue is "hot". Using Old Brown, for example, which is not applied hot, won't melt the old hide glue. I'd agree, however, that if the instrument has been constructed with hot hide glue, hot hide glue is the most appropriate glue for the repair.

[nottypine]

What is the best way you have found for keeping the brace inside the guitar warm enough for HHG without causing problems with finish. I'm not that fast working through the sound hole and worry the temperature may drop before it is clamped. .

[redir]

I use a light bulb on the inside of the guitar to keep it warm. To use HHG in such a situation you can add salt or urea to lengthen it's working time. In essence you are making Old Brown Glue in doing so. Just Google recipes online, I cannot remember off the top of my head but it's a very simple thing to do. Then you can use things like pipets and spatulas to work it in real good before clamping.

Having said that, I've even done experiments that have shown me that Titebond glues to itself reasonable well enough. My guess is that it would work just fine in such a situation but then, why not just use HHG?