#16
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
You just measure the top of fret to bottom of string. In steel string we measure by fretting 3rd fret and measuring 1st fret with feeler gauges .002-.-004. I assume classical would be a little higher. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I'm wondering if earlier in this thread we were talking past one another by assuming the same method of measurement for the 1st fret clearance. I'm guessing measured like you mention it would be a lot lower than .02. When I'm back in my shop from the holidays I'll pop a measurement off that way and post the results. Thanks, Chris |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Chris |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
A good setup for a classical guitar is pretty much as Chris stated. Setup well, the intonation on a classical guitar will be as good or better than steel string guitars. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
I am still perplexed as to why the floor of the nut slot needs to be .5mm higher than the plane of the tops of the first two frets, which is what I assumed you meant ( ignore the fretting at the third and measuring the gap at the first fret ... that wasn't what I was talking about )
When you do a fret dress and crown on a classical guitar (which I have never done, although hundreds on steel string guitars) I assume that you set the neck straight first of all, by whatever method you choose (I use a specialized jig when doing steel string guitars) then dress the frets level (ie the tops are all in the same plane) and then crown them, and you then rely on string tension to pull the neck into correct relief (since classical guitars do not normally have adjustable truss rods). But the nut slot floors are not in this plane, they are .5mm higher, and this is to prevent buzzing. So the question arises, why don't the strings buzz when they are fretted at the first fret ... take it one step further , if you used a capo to hold the strings down at the first fret, would the strings then buzz? And if not, why not? The nut, after all, is in essence only another fret which has the additional function of maintaining string spacing. So if you built a classical guitar with a zero fret, are you saying that the zero fret would have to be .5mm above the level of all the other frets? By that logic, the second fret should be .5mm below the level of the first fret, and the third fret .5mm below the level of the second fret, und so weiter. I am quite sure that there is something I am missing and I eagerly await elucidation. Specifically about the zero fret question. |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The strings don't buzz when you CAPO them because they are being fretted at that particular fret. That's different than the strings being able to clear the fret in front of them. There will still be clearance to the frets in front of the frets that are being capo'd. Chris |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
I see what you're asking... no, the floor of the nut slots is going to be just a hair (not .5mm's) above the 1st fret, but there will be .5mm's of distance between the 1st fret and the bottom of the strings because the strings are climbing towards 4mm's at the 12th fret. That's what is mostly creating the space.
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
I'm thinking along the same lines as murmac on this one. I don't get it? I've built 12 classical guitars, including flamenco, over the last 25 years and I don't have buzz issues on any of the nut slots. Like I said I do tend to go higher on the bass strings, especially for SS guitars, because some players like to really bang on the open strings. But if you treat the nut just like a zero fret for example then in theory the nut slots should be at the same level as the frets in front of it.
Just like the first fret is level to the second and third so should the nut be level to the first and second or at least real close. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The significant point here is that with nylon strings, which are much more flexible (compliant?) than steel, high nut slots do not degrade playability on the first few frets.
__________________
Rodger Knox, PE 1917 Martin 0-28 1956 Gibson J-50 et al |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
The only way I could understand that argument is that you are saying that for any given force applied to a string equally more energy is imparted to an open string on a bone nut compared to a fretted string on a metal fret.
Such that if the vibration from bone nut to bone saddle is greater (larger circles) then from metal fret to bone saddle. Otherwise I'm struggling to understand why a nut should not be treated just like any old fret in regards to string height. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I just googled "classical guitar zero frets" and one of the first hits was this one ...http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.co...c.php?t=49669l It would appear that not every luthier shares your aversion to zero frets on a classical. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
If you look back in the posts, I never argued that the nut slots are .5mm over the first fret. You're both putting words in my posts so to speak. It is, however, an undisputed practice that a classical guitar needs more or less .5mm clearance from the bottom of the strings to the first fret. That's the universal practice because much lower than that buzzes, no matter how good the setup is.
The zero feet construction on classical guitars was more popular in the 30's and 40's and actually works quite well. You can still find some Hauser guitars with zero frets installed in then, and I know a few players who currently prefer them. Chris |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
That seems kind of odd. I've never seen a classical guitar with a glued-in nut. Are you talking about classical or steel string guitars?
-Bob |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Cheers! I wish you a good new year and look forward to learning from you folks.
|