Enlarging Tuner Button Holes

pukematrix · #1 01-05-2016, 08:28 AM

Hey, folks. I ordered a set of cocobolo tuner buttons from a German outfit that advertised them as working on non-Grover Taylor tuners. I asked a couple of questions and felt comfortable that they would be a good fit for my 2003 Summer Strummer, which has Ping Taylor-branded tuners. No dice.

Sending them back is likely not worth the cost and hassle, so I wanted to check with you, my collective repair consultant, to see if I should attempt to modify these to fit and any tips on doing so.

Here's the side by side comparison.

I realize a simple round hole won't do. Trying to figure out how to enlarge it, while still maintaining the flat sides to avoid slipping. Any tips are appreciated!

Thanks,
Austin

phavriluk · #2 01-05-2016, 11:16 AM

Looks like the tuner shafts are hex-shaped to allow the button to pass torque to the tuning mechanism.

If these buttons are truly un-returnable, then perhaps you can take a triangular file to the buttons and create the 'flats' that are needed. But then they are truly yours forever. And the circular hole has to be small enough to allow enlarging corners with a file and still fit very snugly on the shaft.

Alternatively, and I think this is fussy but do-able, drill out the tuner buttons till they slip over the shafts, and then lubricate the shafts and fill the now-enlarged holes in the buttons with epoxy and filler and slip them onto the shafts until the epoxy sets enough to hold shape. If you are new to these materials, and precise use of a drill press, then I think this process may not turn out well. I also have not tried to do this, so extreme caution is needed.

My suggestion is to reinstall the OEM tuner buttons and enjoy the guitar.

pukematrix · #3 01-05-2016, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phavriluk

Looks like the tuner shafts are hex-shaped to allow the button to pass torque to the tuning mechanism.

If these buttons are truly un-returnable, then perhaps you can take a triangular file to the buttons and create the 'flats' that are needed. But then they are truly yours forever. And the circular hole has to be small enough to allow enlarging corners with a file and still fit very snugly on the shaft.

Alternatively, and I think this is fussy but do-able, drill out the tuner buttons till they slip over the shafts, and then lubricate the shafts and fill the now-enlarged holes in the buttons with epoxy and filler and slip them onto the shafts until the epoxy sets enough to hold shape. If you are new to these materials, and precise use of a drill press, then I think this process may not turn out well. I also have not tried to do this, so extreme caution is needed.

My suggestion is to reinstall the OEM tuner buttons and enjoy the guitar.

Thanks for the thought. I'll reexamine the tuner shaft today to determine the shape. I've always wanted a set to match the headstock overlay on this particular guitar and the only reason I grabbed these was the seller's assurance they'd fit non-Grover Taylor tuners, plus they had a picture of the button on Taylor tuner. Perhaps the shaft shape has changed on the Taylor machines since mine were produced. In any event, it's starting to look like a decent amount of effort and trial & error to make these work, so will likely take your advice and play her as she is, gold buttons & all.

Knollhaven · #4 01-05-2016, 03:38 PM

Hey, does anyone know if this button shape will fit a set of Gotoh 510 tuners? Then the OP could upgrade the stock tuners and use these buttons. Does that make sense?

pukematrix · #5 01-05-2016, 04:14 PM

I do have a set of Gotoh 510 machines on my other cocobolo Taylor, so could check for fit, if you're curious. But for the guitar in question, I'd prefer not to drill any holes. I believe the 510 machines, without having them in front of me, would require that.

You do have me pondering some of the cocobolo Gotoh buttons from LMII for my GS Limited...button acquisition syndrome.

Ned Milburn · #6 01-05-2016, 04:23 PM

They are difficult to drill out. Can be done by hand with a drill press, but you may make a mess of one or two before you get it right. I bought 12 sets of ebony buttons for some decent quality classical tuners I have that originally came with cheesy plastic buttons. So for DIY, filing the posts might be easier, but it will permanently alter the tuners.

Frank Ford · #7 01-06-2016, 01:23 AM

Those holes are generally called "double-D" because the shape of the hole is similar to two back-to-back letter D shapes. The shaft is round with two flat sides.

Now, making such holes isn't exactly a trivial job. Usually it's done by broaching, which is a process not suited to some of the materials in question, such as wood.

Wood buttons are commonly mounted on this kind of tuner shaft by cementing onto knurled round metal sleeves that have the double-D hole molded or broached in them. Offhand, I don't know of a source for the sleeves, but I suppose they could be transplanted from salvaged plastic or wood buttons.

Filing the holes by hand to fit is a job I wouldn't want to undertake myself. . .

mirwa · #8 01-06-2016, 05:47 AM

The only successful way I have ever reshaped the inside of machine heads like these is with it firmly clamped in the mill and an end mill cutter being used.

I have attempted to drill them out previously with hand drills pedestal drills, reamers and so forth, but never really with any form of success.

Broaches, as frank mentions are great for reshaping holes,, but I also do not find broaches work well very well on wood

, great for steel and alloys

Steve