Guitar Center’s $1 billion in debt reveals this truth about musical tastes

[lgherb]

And I suppose the gutting of music programs from our nation's school systems has absolutely nothing to do with lack of instrument sales.

[LoboR1]

I predict that in the next two years, the next Beatles/Zeppelin/Nirvana will hit it big and we won't be so worried about guitar-based music and instrument sales dying off. The music market is so ready for a change from the Pop/Rap/Beiber-esque style that has been dominant on the radio and TV.

Right place, right time!

[fazool]

Originally Posted by mmasters

I think George Gruhn hit the nail on the head, there are practically no guitar heros today to inspire people to buy guitars. Joe B and John Mayer are about it and they are like B grade guitar heros.

I believe it is very important to point out that George Gruhn never said those guys are "B grade" guitar heroes. He never said that and that quote was made above only.

His exact quote was :

“I would be hard-pressed to name any new ones,” he said. “You’ve got Joe Bonamassa who is a great player. But he isn’t selling as many guitars as the other big time heroes.

He said Joe Bonamassa is agreat guitar player and a big time hero, comparing him to the OTHER big time heroes.

It is important, I think, to not mis-quote people's words and then publish it on the Internet where it get ascribed to someone as if they actually said that.

George Gruhn NEVER SAID THIS.

[Triangle G]

Originally Posted by Uncle Clownmeat

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/03/20...usical-tastes/

I would say that 20% of G's problem is the company itself; not just changing tastes. 4 of the last 6 guitars that I bought were not purchased from GC. I don't even go in there any more.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by lgherb

And I suppose the gutting of music programs from our nation's school systems has absolutely nothing to do with lack of instrument sales.

It's interesting you say that and I must be super lucky (and am grateful) - our school music program is booming and growing. We have such a huge school music program it's amazing. In fact tomorrow is another big county-wide school music concert performed at the local university.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by LoboR1

I predict that in the next two years, the next Beatles/Zeppelin/Nirvana will hit it big and we won't be so worried about guitar-based music and instrument sales dying off. The music market is so ready for a change from the Pop/Rap/Beiber-esque style that has been dominant on the radio and TV.

Right place, right time!

I think you are right. I couldn't wait for the shift to wash away the 90's gangsta-rap era and Bieber-esque pop did (btw I like some JB (I even play some) and I'm in my fifties).

I think this is already starting with the emergence of acoustic guitar prominence and players like Ed Sheeran. I mean one guy on stage with an acoustic guitar and a looper, putting on an excellent show of good original songs and selling out arenas is pretty successful.

[bluesfreek]

Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page and...Jimi Hendrix...these are "guitar heroes".
They have influenced popular/rock music, millions of guitarists and songwriters for decades. Hendrix has been dead for almost 50 years and his influence on the guitar still goes on today. The last great guitar hero in my mind was SRV.

John Mayer and Joe Bonamassa might be fine players but I don't put them in same league as the previous players I have mentioned.

As for Guitar Center? We don't have them here and if we did I probably wouldn't shop there anyway.

Yes, I am a grumpy old man.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

My 16 year old plays fiddle, mandolin, and ukelele. She listen to pop, to Americana, and some strange things I don't get into. My 14 year old is taking piano lessons. I didn't start playing an instrument until I was 17 or 18, so they are way ahead of me!

I'm not so sure that I would say that electronic music creation requires no dedication or talent. I have a Maschine and I can tell you that thing is terribly hard to make great music with. I love it for the ability to simulate so many types of drums, but I have yet to actually record with it. I'm far from that point. Same for the midi keyboard. But, I'm not really a keyboard/piano player.

I agree.

Our eldest played flute through high school and even in her college marching band. Our next eldest play percussion in her middle school band. Our next played French horn through middle school and has asked me to teach him his favorite song on guitar. Our youngest is a committed clarinetist, just promoted to first chair. She dabbles in her keyboards and ukulele and has an interest in guitar, accordian and flute (but hasn't had time to play those she acquired).

So I am seeing a lot of musical interest in the next generation. And they listen to music more ubiquitously than I ever did (and I listened a lot)

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

What does Gruhn know about what kind of music sells and what instruments they play...........



Dave Matthews, John Mayer, Julian Lage, Molly Tuttle, Andy McKee, Antoine Dufour, Taylor Swift, Jack White, Dave Grohl, etc etc. Not to mention hundreds of metal guitarists who inspire kids to learn the guitar every day. He's just uninformed. Guitar heroes are everywhere. They just don't play interminable pentatonic solos anymore.

Makes me wonder if 75% of the folks posting on AGF are Gruhn's alternative accounts. .

I understand your point but I don’t think one can compare The artistes you mentioned to the legendary guitar (gods) players of the 60s and 70s. This is not to belittle the new artists but they do not have the same mass guitar mystic as Hendrix, J. Beck, Clapton, Page, Howe, Gilmore, Betts ...and the list goes on. And it is the interminable Solos that made them legends. Times change.

[jjrpilot]

Part of the article were spot on. It's the older generations that have the money/ability to buy nice guitars. Shoot, half of Millennials in a recent financial report I read said that "they don't think they need a retirement fund" so in essence why save for one?


While I'm on the generational kick, I'll throw this out there too...IMHO, the "forum" in general is probably a dying format. I'd venture to say that the majority of users here and other guitar forums are older guys and gals.

That being said forums do have a weird niche as they tend to be the repositories of knowledge that pop up when people do searches.

Weird to think that in about 25-40 years...a good majority of us will be dead...and our guitars...well who knows where they'll be.

Happy Friday!

[printer2]

Guitar Gods, yawn. Well except for maybe Angus Young who seems to be in eternal youth mode. Kids don't need people that can play gazillian notes a minute. They need three chord, bang them out, hey I can do that music. The problem is when they get good enough to play out there are not the opportunities to make gas money.

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I disagree. It's not that rap or electronic are more popular. It's that they are equally popular. Back in the 60s and 70s folk and pop were massively popular.

Now there are so many diverse musical styles (a good thing) that no one style is dominant.

Much like network tv is losing viewership to cable, netflix, hulu, etc. so is folk music getting fragmented due to the many different types of music out there.

My daughter is 15 and she and her friends listen to everything from Indie music, rap, electronica, emo and yes, folk based music. Apple music has allowed them to listen to so much more types of music that I was exposed to as a teen. She even has listened to Pete Seeger and Johnny Cash.

I'll respectfully disagree. While kids are exposed to much more music via the available technology than ever before, those like your daughter are truly the exceptions rather than the rule. Additionally, while being exposed to a plethora of music looks good on the surface, most of that music is completely devoid of guitar instrumentation. Compare that to decades ago when the guitar was prominently figured into most forms of popular music. While the exposure to music has increased, the significance of the guitar has declined.

Each spring I perform a musical workshop in several middle schools, in which student bring in their instruments and form a "band" under my direction. When I first started this 15 years ago, I had dozens of guitar players, as well as horns and other string instruments. These days I'm lucky if a couple of guitar players show up. I've noticed a steady decline in the guitar's popularity amongst 14-year-olds over the last 4 to 5 years, at least. I'm in the trenches, and as such see this up close.

And while places like "School Of Rock" may be somewhat popular now, unless we have new guitar heroes to replace the old ones - old both figuratively and literally - unfortunately the majority of guitar purchases will be from, as George Gruhn so accurately put it, the Boomer generation.

[devellis]

There have always been, and always will be, young people who gravitate toward making music. There have always been, and always will be, young people who gravitate toward whatever is cool and popular. I think the big difference is that making acoustic music isn't as cool and popular as it once was, so that second group (at least) has gotten a lot smaller.

So, yes, the first group of young people are playing music and taking it as seriously as people of any generation ever did. I suspect that this group is a smaller proportion of young people than it once was because there are fewer role models (professionals or peers) to infect them with the music-making bug. And that second group isn't gravitating toward making music in the numbers that we once saw because playing guitar isn't "the cool thing" in the way it once was. There are many more activities that appeal to young people than there once were and a bunch of those activities generate more social recognition.

The notion that there hasn't been a decline in interest in learning guitar because someone's kid and two of his or her friends play ignores the larger trend, focusing instead on readily available but unrepresentative examples. Of course there are still young people who make an active effort to learn guitar. But there are fewer now, I strongly suspect, who first take an interest primarily because it's "the thing to do" and then find themselves actually getting hooked on it.

When people were gravitating toward making music only because it was cool and popular, some of them discovered that they actually liked playing and invested the time to learn. Some got pretty good and were socially rewarded for that time and effort. I think that is happening less now. All those "other things" that they can become involved with and seek to master are occupying chunks of their time and dedication. Just the amount of time spent on social media is substantial and is time taken away from other activities, like learning or practicing guitar.

And there's other stuff, too. I see young people practicing skate boarding skills and enduring a lot more physical pain and frustration than learning guitar ever involved. But they persist and get good at it. I think that's because there's a social reward structure for that, within their group, that isn't there for learning guitar. But part of that may just be that skate boarding is learned where we all can see it and guitar is learned at home, where we can't. In any case, it speaks to the willingness of these folks to devote considerable time and effort to to something they consider important and for which they have identifiable (professional and peer) role models.

I don't see any reason to assume that young people are, on average, lazier or dumber than they were in the past. They are less active, however. They may devote themselves to new challenges but typically those are less physical activities. We've had an upturn in obesity; and Type 2 diabetes, which used to be pretty much exclusively an old people's disease, now has a substantial prevalence among younger people. If your kid is the one playing on three sports teams, you may not have a sense that young people are less active on average. But this is an area where reliable statistics are actually collected and the overall trend toward less physical activity is inescapable. And it's been progressing now for the last few decades.

Not sure how, or if, it impacts the decision to take up guitar other than it suggests that young people have found a lot of passive activities to take up their time. They actually also seem to be spending more time snacking and it's hard to play and munch at the same time. This isn't everyone. But on average, it's more prevalent than it once was.

While the decline in physical activity and increase in obesity are worrisome, it's really okay if young folks don't decide to take up guitar. Well, I guess it's bad for guitar shops and guitar instructors. But in the larger scheme, it's really not that worrying a trend. There are and will continue to be a bunch of folks who do decide to learn guitar. The art form isn't on the verge of extinction. Not everyone needs to have the same interests. It'll all be fine.

[Treenewt]

As far as GC goes, I'm not surprised. We've been talking about this on here since...well, as long as I've been a member! I know I'm usually frustrated when I go and attempt to play some acoustics, now that the ones I want to play are locked down tight. I'm thankful they're not getting bashed on by ever kid (hmmmm...wait, there are kids still going to GC and bashing guitars so...) but rarely is there ever an associate around to help me get one down.

That's good for my checkbook...but not GC's.

As to the kids these days, I have 3. My eldest love piano and is learning Ukelele. My middle child is learning fiddle and guitar. My youngest is 6 and just wants to bash everything, so we'll see. However, when we get in the car, their most common request is for the Beatles. No Bieber, the Beatles. Oh, they like One Direction and Taylor Swift, and they also love folk, Americana, hip hop and other genres. I'm thankful they have wide-ranging tastes and influences to pick up on.

My wife and I recently went to see the Lone Bellow. They performed an entirely acoustic set at a club here in OKC. It was sold out and while many of the attendees were in their 40s (like us), the majority were younger. It was a great mix of ages, and we all had a ball.

I don't think it's dead, y'all. GC and their model may be, or may not be, but music is cyclical. In the 80s, the synth killed the guitar, right? Nope. It all comes around.

[jfitz81]

Mods, is there any way we can get a "Kids today, amirite?" forum? Because I would *live* in that forum. The day that older people complaining about younger people is not wildly entertaining to me is the day I need to log off.

(I think many people enjoy music and will continue to do so, but please: carry on!)