Advice for a devoted newbiie

[Honeybee]

Long story as short as I can make it:

I come from a family of classical musicians, have played classical music since childhood, professionally, on off. Now I'm 23 years old and have quit the oboe due to physical trouble, pains.

Stumbled upon my roomie's western guitar 6 months ago, fell in love with the idea and the sound, stubbornly determined to master the beast. I knew nothing about the instrument and that evil steel strings are not a necessary part of the deal. My dad warned me, but who am I to listen. I went to guitar-war and won, but now with 6 layers of callus on my fingertips and an intimate experience with morning arthritis, I have given it back to its owner with thanks, but no thanks.

A week has passed, I have serious guitar withdrawal. I promised my left hand never to touch that first Egmond ever again, but I never said I wouldn't find a new guitar lover. This time a bit more careful
__

Down to the real question now.

I adore Nick Drake's sound, although I have learned the wisdom in never trying to want to be like other musicians. Still, I have a very soft spot for fingerpicking, which I intend to be doing if I purchase my own stringbaby. Now, I have a budget of 2600 dkkr/ 470 dollars, a really bad itch to get going and no idea what guitar to buy for this kind of money. I don't really like the sound of Fender Dreadnoughts for this kind of music, although I have never held one.

I'd really like to find a guitar that is comparably small bodied, with a narrow neck (I got used to that and like it) and some "friendliness" in the string-department concerning barre-chords and such. I am a no-goer with nylon strings despite my finger-horror..

There is this girl here in DK who sells her Ibanez AC2040 OPN for exactly my budget - would that be wise for me to buy?

Have read that Takamine New Yorker should be good for fingerpicking, but that would mean 2 months of no playing, and living off of grains- kind of patience


Any advice?

[roylor4]

The Ibanez 2040 is the all-solid cousin of the ac240 opn and not available here in the US. The ac240 itself sounds great and I would expect the 2040 to be quite a bit better.

As for picking it over a Takamine New Yorker - which model? There are several "New Yorkers". The all solid ones are great, the solid topped ones are a bit better than average but nothing special IMO.

The 2040 should have a 1.75" nut width and may be wider than you are used to but it is still worth checking out. All mahogany guitars are often favored by many fingerpickers for their warmth and responsiveness.

[Honeybee]

Takamine EF407 would be the one for sale..

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by roylor4

The Ibanez 2040 is the all-solid cousin of the ac240 opn and not available here in the US. The ac240 itself sounds great and I would expect the 2040 to be quite a bit better.

As for picking it over a Takamine New Yorker - which model? There are several "New Yorkers". The all solid ones are great, the solid topped ones are a bit better than average but nothing special IMO.

The 2040 should have a 1.75" nut width and may be wider than you are used to but it is still worth checking out. All mahogany guitars are often favored by many fingerpickers for their warmth and responsiveness.

Someone told me the 2040 can be had in Canada but I'm not sure. Would love to try one.

Also, the OP has good taste in Nick Drake.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Honeybee

Takamine EF407 would be the one for sale..

I'm sorry, but not familiar with that model. It does have a VERY narrow neck - 1 & 5/8 and it says KOA top, back and sides but does NOT say SOLID KOA. I would choose an all solid guitar all day long over a laminate one, even a good one like Takamine. The NY body style is quite a bit smaller than the OM sized Ibanez in question - this, coupled with a laminate build will likely result in the Takamine having substantially less volume acoustically. The Takamine pickup system is quite excellent so if you are plugging in that would be a consideration.

I purchased a New Yorker PEAK (all solid, special edition) and sent it back - not enough volume and too bright for me. I'm more of a strummer though.

You should take a look at the Ibanez. I would ONLY consider buying the NY'er if the store had a generous return policy. It isn't a guitar I would consider personally - but I like solid wood and 1.75" nut width so......

Just my .02

[amyFB]

000 models are small body instruments that eliminate most shoulder pain associated with a dreadnought style. ( i have a sweet breedlove for sale in classifieds that would suit you nicely!)

Good action along the neck will also make it easier to play.

I spent many years playing "wrong" because i had the misconception that i had to grip the neck very tightly in order to get both good sound and good volume.

now i practice exercises to loosen the grip while maintaining good tone, and use the right hand technique to drive the volume up or down.

good luck.!

[Honeybee]

Sorry, I actually looked up the difference between solid an non-solid guitars, but still I don't understand the real difference it makes - some say that it's a matter of overall quality of the guitar, that you can get really good ones that play amazingly that aren't one-piece and one-piece guitars that are rather cheap sounding. Would you elaborate on that?

[Scootch]

Solid wood vibrates better than non solid (plywood)

If a guitar is solid, the manufacturer will say so. If the just call it wood or select wood, it's plywood.

Also some guitars are all solid, some are solid top only (like th Ac240opn). Some are all plywood.

The difference between all solid and solid top is not as much as a solid top versus laminated aka plywood.

Some laminated guitars do sound nice, as manufacturing and design make a difference. Also all laminates are not the same. Some are plywood with a pretty top, some are basically solid tone wood with a veneer.

Hope that doesn't confuse you too much!

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Honeybee

Long story as short as I can make it:

There is this girl here in DK who sells her Ibanez AC2040 OPN for exactly my budget - would that be wise for me to buy?

Any advice?

in the US Ibanez sells the AC240 which is the same spec as the AC2040 except it's got laminated b&s whereas the AC2040 OPN is all solid. I have been the happy owner of an AC240 for a few years. It's a truly great guitar for the price... Nick Drake played with all mahogany Guild guitars (M20). The modern day counterpart to that would be a Guild M120 which is a great all-solid wood guitar that should be priced around the same as the AC2040 if you can find it. The M120 comes with a hard case when sold in the states, not sure about your country but it is a guitar worth looking at if you love the Nick Drake sound.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Honeybee

Sorry, I actually looked up the difference between solid an non-solid guitars, but still I don't understand the real difference it makes - some say that it's a matter of overall quality of the guitar, that you can get really good ones that play amazingly that aren't one-piece and one-piece guitars that are rather cheap sounding. Would you elaborate on that?

Well, these are gross generalizations so please take them as such.

The MOST important physical component on a guitar is the top. (Some here will jump in and say - no, the builder or the bracing, etc. - all of which may be true on high end, small luthier builds) but we are talking about factory built guitars here.

Solid top is the most important. They vibrate more freely and have more punch and volume. Solid back and sides are less important, but still contribute greatly to the tonal attributes of a guitar. Laminate woods are criss-crossed layers which impedes optimal vibration and therefore, optimal volume and tone.

Yes, build quality has a LOT to do with it but we aren't talking about a Santa Cruz or Bourgeois here. Factory guitars will by there very nature be built in a similar, piece by piece way. Some factories have higher quality control standards than others. Takamine is one of the better ones as far as quality.

I will say this - I played the Solid top, laminate side version (Ibanez ac240 OPN) this weekend and preferred it to the Takamine PEAK (all solid) that I sent back. The difference had a lot to do with size and how well different sizes and materials convey tone.

I would never spend a decent amount of money on any all-laminate guitar without playing it. Solid top is a must on a factory guitar for decent tone and volume (IMO).

Lots of companies make all laminate guitars that have fancy woods and lots of "bling" but sound like cardboard boxes with rubber bands on them. The Takamine is fancier looking but unless looks matter more than tone and volume it is overpriced pieces of pressboard to me.

All that said, you will never know until you pick one up - but I would place a HUGE bet on the 2040 sounding better. Playability is a different animal.

I think you should play many guitars in your price range before limiting your search to these two.

[Honeybee]

The modern day counterpart to that would be a Guild M120 which is a great all-solid wood guitar that should be priced around the same as the AC2040 if you can find it. The M120 comes with a hard case when sold in the states, not sure about your country but it is a guitar worth looking at if you love the Nick Drake sound.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much! That makes sense

[Honeybee]

Originally Posted by roylor4

I'm sorry, but not familiar with that model. It does have a VERY narrow neck - 1 & 5/8 and it says KOA top, back and sides but does NOT say SOLID KOA. I would choose an all solid guitar all day long over a laminate one, even a good one like Takamine. The NY body style is quite a bit smaller than the OM sized Ibanez in question - this, coupled with a laminate build will likely result in the Takamine having substantially less volume acoustically. The Takamine pickup system is quite excellent so if you are plugging in that would be a consideration.

I purchased a New Yorker PEAK (all solid, special edition) and sent it back - not enough volume and too bright for me. I'm more of a strummer though.

You should take a look at the Ibanez. I would ONLY consider buying the NY'er if the store had a generous return policy. It isn't a guitar I would consider personally - but I like solid wood and 1.75" nut width so......

Just my .02

Thanks for you advice

[Honeybee]

Originally Posted by Scootch

Solid wood vibrates better than non solid (plywood)

If a guitar is solid, the manufacturer will say so. If the just call it wood or select wood, it's plywood.

Also some guitars are all solid, some are solid top only (like th Ac240opn). Some are all plywood.

The difference between all solid and solid top is not as much as a solid top versus laminated aka plywood.

Some laminated guitars do sound nice, as manufacturing and design make a difference. Also all laminates are not the same. Some are plywood with a pretty top, some are basically solid tone wood with a veneer.

Hope that doesn't confuse you too much!

Oh, that does make a lot of sense with some google-search and dictionary Thanks for explaining

[Honeybee]

Thank you so much!

You guys are the best

I have learned more about guitars in these few hours than the 6 months I spent playing one, haha

Anyway, I guess what it all sums up to is - get out there and try them out. No other way around, huh. Roylor4, you pretty much covered everything, only one question still stands, something you brought up, actually: Playability. See, I'm interested in a gentler instrument. Problem is that if I weren't so very shy socially, I'd just go out there in all the shops and play through every single instrument untill I felt the right one, but personality is a b***h and here I am trying to exclude the ones I can think my way to knowing won't work.

I am not interested in looks, just the sound and feeling to the instrument. With feeling I don't mean that it should be easy like a toy instrument, but the rich, smooth responsiveness that doesn't need athletic strength to cover a barre-chord. So maybe you would recommend other names/brands?

I apologize for my wobbely English, I hope it makes sense

Any case, thanks a lot!

[Honeybee]

Originally Posted by Scootch

Solid wood vibrates better than non solid (plywood)

If a guitar is solid, the manufacturer will say so. If the just call it wood or select wood, it's plywood.

Also some guitars are all solid, some are solid top only (like th Ac240opn). Some are all plywood.

The difference between all solid and solid top is not as much as a solid top versus laminated aka plywood.

Some laminated guitars do sound nice, as manufacturing and design make a difference. Also all laminates are not the same. Some are plywood with a pretty top, some are basically solid tone wood with a veneer.

Hope that doesn't confuse you too much!

Thanks! No, it makes perfect sense with a little dictionary-work on my part