The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:36 AM
Teleman52 Teleman52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
As posternut alluded to, it's a whole different world from guitar picks. Good violin bows are very complex and difficult to make.
yep! and i thought my $35 bluechip pick was expensive!

I've also found a really cool site and resource for me, i wanted to share in case any other beginner texas fiddler found this thread and was looking for a good teacher.

http://www.totfa.org/newsletters/teachers.htm

I've decided to visit one of these guys for a lesson instead of my orginal choice. Reason being is that the first teacher i found seems to be more classical leaning, but also enjoys old time.

These guys seem to be old time first musicians so i think they will be of more help to me. The site has also opened my eyes to "texas old time fiddle music" distinct from texas swing. Very interesting and seems to be the direction i would like to take. Especially as it borrows (and created) alot of the same old time tunes i already know, but has a certain texas flavor to them that i really like.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:25 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleman52 View Post
yep! and i thought my $35 bluechip pick was expensive!

I've also found a really cool site and resource for me, i wanted to share in case any other beginner texas fiddler found this thread and was looking for a good teacher.

http://www.totfa.org/newsletters/teachers.htm

I've decided to visit one of these guys for a lesson instead of my orginal choice. Reason being is that the first teacher i found seems to be more classical leaning, but also enjoys old time.

These guys seem to be old time first musicians so i think they will be of more help to me. The site has also opened my eyes to "texas old time fiddle music" distinct from texas swing. Very interesting and seems to be the direction i would like to take. Especially as it borrows (and created) alot of the same old time tunes i already know, but has a certain texas flavor to them that i really like.
Cool site, thanks for sharing. I say don't be afraid to experiment with teachers. Taking a few lessons with a classical-oriented teacher isn't a bad thing... they are usually sticklers for mechanics, and the things you learn about bowing and fingering are readily transferrable to other styles. Again, it's a little different from guitar in that regard; playing classical guitar may not help you with, say, bluegrass. But for violin it will.
One of my favorite players is Mark O'Connor. He has played American music styles with the very best... but at heart, he's a serious classical-style player.
__________________

1943 Gibson J-45
Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937
Voyage Air VAOM-4
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:25 AM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

My wife is a very fine violinist.. I do not play.

I bought, sold, collected and hustled violins for many years back in the 8o's.
I had many extraordinary violins go through my hands.. and many quality bows.

I often bought violins just to get the bow.

I made a considerable amount of money trading violins and was asked by a rather famous violin shop in San Francisco to join them. I declined as I was otherwise well employed. Violin hustling was a sideline.

As with learning to play the violin, learning to buy them is also a steep learning curve. I paid the price many times.

The quality level I was looking for was mid level... beginning concert quality up to $10k.. that was in 1980s dollars. Double that for current values.


About a year ago.. many years after I gave up the hustle.. my grandson needed a viola of some quality.. he was playing the typical Chinese, virtually unplayable unit. I went on a hunt for a 15 1/2 inch viola.

After only one week I found one in a pawn shop. I usually avoid them as I detest the profession. But something compelled me to go in. Up on the wall were the usual trash but among them was a small viola. I asked if that was a violin, they said yes as if I was a fool. Me fully expecting them to be intelligent and say it was a viola was an overestimation of their scope.

They brought it down. I asked for a tape measure.. sure enough 15 1/2 inches.

Very nicely made mid fifties top of the line Mittenwald piece with excellent woods and finish all there. $150 with case and a decent German low end pernambuco bow.

I took it to my violin guy who set it up to German standards, new quality strings... all in, including cost of the viola and the set up and strings, $400. Value.. double that at minimum.

And I did not think there would still be instruments available given the internet and exposure to credible information.


BTW.. I have mentioned before that I hustled rare and exotic woods for instrument makers back in the 80s.. my specialty was pernambuco. I sold to bow makers from San Diego to Vancouver Canada and San Francisco to Paris.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07-17-2014, 12:11 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,346
Default

Bohemian- very cool, thanks for the stories. I agree, the learning curve with violin purchases is very steep. There are almost certainly some bargains to be found out there, but to find them would require sifting through hundreds of throw-away violins that people bought for their 3rd grader and never used.

My local Craigslist has probably a hundred violins listed. There are two or three that I've had my eye on, but the only way to know if they're any good would be to go play them. That would proabably be a low-probability bet in most cases.

Re: pernambuco- my understanding is that they really can't export it out of Brazil at all any more, unless it's made into a finished bow. There are now a lot of bowmakers who live in Brazil. The one I just bought was made by a certain L. Boina; can't find anything else about him though.
__________________

1943 Gibson J-45
Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937
Voyage Air VAOM-4
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 07-19-2014, 09:00 AM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

Pernambuco can come out of Brazil, if..

and this is not iron clad..

You are a Brazilian
Sourced from private property
Minimally manufactured ie some work done on the piece
Formerly used for another purpose such as mantles, lintels and fence posts.

The biggest exporter of pernambuco used to be a German company called Nagle and their go to guy was a Dr. sorry forgat his name.. been a long time. But he was Mr Pernambuco. I suspect he has left us by now.

Back around 1979 I bought a cubic meter of violin bow boards ( roughly 16mm by 100 mm by a meter long ) from a wood importer in Calif. I paid $1100. I made around $10,000 off it over two years. I found other stashes here and there and made friends with some bow making pioneers such as Bolander from Sanata Cruz. He had some great ideas, including the use of other timbres and how to treat the wood in various phases

At one time I owned a book on bowmaking he penned.. I gave it to an instrument book collector, classical guitar maker, as a gift. I should have made a copy.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:33 AM
Teleman52 Teleman52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,334
Default

Well I got my fiddle yesterday and it's been fun so far.

I'm especially impressed with the bow, this eastman bl60 is much better than what I was trying to use before.

I made a mistake and skimped on the chin rest though, it's a no name kun style chin rest, it seems to fit my shoulder just fine, but it tilts while I'm playing and always eventually ends up facing sideways on my shoulder. I'm going to go to a violin shop when I get a chance and try some other shoulder rests out.

I would definitley say I'm doing much better this time than the first time. Now that I know the notes from playing mandolin I've been able so far to eek out Arkansas traveler and whiskey before breakfast. I can play them all the way through, but my intonation is pretty bad and I'm of course having problems getting a good tone with the bow as any beginner does. My family did say I sound better than they expected so that's good

It's hard to judge the violin itself since I can't play very well. But it seems very well setup (non factory setup) and the open strings sound very full and the violin really vibrates well.its also really a pretty looking instrument. I put on helicore strings immediately because for some reason the a string sounded horrid.

I have a lesson this weekend, I'll update after the lesson


Last edited by Teleman52; 07-24-2014 at 09:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07-24-2014, 05:41 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,508
Default

This is just the beginning : )

Have fun !
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:15 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,346
Default

Good strings make a big difference. I also like Helicores.

Have fun with it! I have a regular old plastic chin rest on mine... it works just fine. I would however, experiment with the shoulder rest. Ideally, the violin will be able to hold itself up with just the pressure from your shoulder and chin- shouldn't need your hand to hold up the neck. I used the standard-issue Kun for a while, which did OK. At some point I switched to a Bonmusica, which hooks over the shoulder more and makes the instrument more stable. Really made a big difference in my playing.
__________________

1943 Gibson J-45
Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937
Voyage Air VAOM-4
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:55 AM
Teleman52 Teleman52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
Good strings make a big difference. I also like Helicores.

Have fun with it! I have a regular old plastic chin rest on mine... it works just fine. I would however, experiment with the shoulder rest. Ideally, the violin will be able to hold itself up with just the pressure from your shoulder and chin- shouldn't need your hand to hold up the neck. I used the standard-issue Kun for a while, which did OK. At some point I switched to a Bonmusica, which hooks over the shoulder more and makes the instrument more stable. Really made a big difference in my playing.
yes! the bonamusica is the one i want. i saw it recommended by a guy who specialized in ergonomics on youtube. It does look like a good design. I want to be able to hold the violin with no hands, and without having to scrunch my shoulder up or hold my chine down.

It seems like that would greatly improve my playing as well
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:34 PM
bkepler bkepler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
Good strings make a big difference. I also like Helicores.

Have fun with it! I have a regular old plastic chin rest on mine... it works just fine. I would however, experiment with the shoulder rest. Ideally, the violin will be able to hold itself up with just the pressure from your shoulder and chin- shouldn't need your hand to hold up the neck. I used the standard-issue Kun for a while, which did OK. At some point I switched to a Bonmusica, which hooks over the shoulder more and makes the instrument more stable. Really made a big difference in my playing.
I too, was enamored with the design of the Bonmusica shoulder rest. I've actually gone back to my standard Kun for my main violin and use the Bonmusica on my second that I leave cross-tuned. My school students often show up with Resonans rests. I would caution you to stay away from those. They flex and fall off of the instrument. As a teacher, I would much prefer a rubber band and sponge, to the Resonans. Also, I've found that the style of chin rest makes a difference. I went from an ebony Guarneri-style chin rest to the Wittner off-centered hypoallergenic one. Comfort has been much improved.
__________________
Lowden G-23
Pono DS-20
Martin D-18 Standard
Recording King RD-328
Epiphone 1934 Olympic
Composite Acoustics Cargo
Recording King ROS-11-FE3-TBR
Alvarez AJ-417/12
Silvertone 1958/9 620 Jumbo
Supertone 1941 3/4 Scale (Terz?)
Oscar Schmidt 3/4 Scale
Kepler Biscuit Reso
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07-25-2014, 08:45 PM
bkepler bkepler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleman52 View Post
yes! the bonamusica is the one i want. i saw it recommended by a guy who specialized in ergonomics on youtube. It does look like a good design. I want to be able to hold the violin with no hands, and without having to scrunch my shoulder up or hold my chine down.

It seems like that would greatly improve my playing as well
I meant to put in my other reply that it sounds like you need to make sure that the feet of your shoulder rest are out as much as possible to give you maximum height. If that's not enough, you may consider a tall chinrest like some of the ones SAS makes. The "hooked" design of the Bonmusica won't really alleviate the need to raise your shoulder or lower your head since you'll still need to make contact at two points, but rather keep it from moving side to side (which I've never had a problem with). If you want no contact, you could always look into a violin harness.
__________________
Lowden G-23
Pono DS-20
Martin D-18 Standard
Recording King RD-328
Epiphone 1934 Olympic
Composite Acoustics Cargo
Recording King ROS-11-FE3-TBR
Alvarez AJ-417/12
Silvertone 1958/9 620 Jumbo
Supertone 1941 3/4 Scale (Terz?)
Oscar Schmidt 3/4 Scale
Kepler Biscuit Reso
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07-26-2014, 02:49 PM
Teleman52 Teleman52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkepler View Post
I meant to put in my other reply that it sounds like you need to make sure that the feet of your shoulder rest are out as much as possible to give you maximum height. If that's not enough, you may consider a tall chinrest like some of the ones SAS makes. The "hooked" design of the Bonmusica won't really alleviate the need to raise your shoulder or lower your head since you'll still need to make contact at two points, but rather keep it from moving side to side (which I've never had a problem with). If you want no contact, you could always look into a violin harness.
No I actually have a pretty short neck, the rest is almost adjusted all the way down, my problem isn't so much that I can't get it to fit right, it's that the foot of the rest slowly rotates towards me and I end up with the rest sitting sideways on my shoulder after only a short time of play. I've ordered the bonamusica, it should be a nice rest, the one I have now cost me ten bucks.i probably should've spent a little more


For anyone who might be wondering how it sounds, I've actually been able to put together a full song so I thought I'd record it. It's really not bad for only a few days of learning by myself, at least that's what I think.

http://soundcloud.com/user715050806/...fiddle/s-JusH2
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07-28-2014, 07:46 PM
Teleman52 Teleman52 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,334
Default

And here is that same tune after my first lesson

http://soundcloud.com/user715050806/...-first/s-q3piG

Big improvement I think! I love when I can get the notes flowing and strung together, it's very easy with this song.

I expected my teacher to correct some sort of bad posture or bow hold that I had but they said it was really good as is and really more than anything just showed me how to play with more confidence and play into the strings not on top of them.

Most important thing right now is that I get control of the bow

There's also a couple of other fiddle tunes on there if you look

Last edited by Teleman52; 07-28-2014 at 09:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 07-29-2014, 07:17 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,346
Default

Nice work Teleman! That's great progress for just starting. You'll have this down in no time.
__________________

1943 Gibson J-45
Martin Custom Shop 000-28 Authentic Aged 1937
Voyage Air VAOM-4
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 07-30-2014, 07:23 PM
cu4life7 cu4life7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Silverdale, Washington
Posts: 1,744
Default

I'm considering the jump myself to learn fiddle. I'm coming from guitar and mandolin with no knowledge of strings instruments. I am thinking pretty seriously of jumping in with the magic fluke cricket instead of going the traditional route. I would love to know if any of you experienced guys have played one and can offer up any advice? If not that, I might rent or find something used.... It's hard knowing nothing in the craigslist market.

The cricket feels more guitar/uke player friendly.
__________________
My Therapy:
Martin 000-18GE 1937 Sunburst MFG
Martin 000-15
Kevin Enoch Tradesman Open Back Banjo
Collings MT2-O Honey Amber
Royce Burt #560 5-String Fiddle
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Other Musical Instruments

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=