Harmony Sovereign H6303 Neck Reset. Is it worth it?

[johna2u]

So far so good. I have the fingerboard extension loose from the body and a kind of a jig made to pull the neck. Only 2 minor casualties so far. The position marker on the 15th fret caught fire and flamed out in a blaze of glory. Oops! Plus a few small dents from the pallet knife.

[johna2u]

Got all set up and waited for the steam to start. That took about 10 minutes, I'd guess. Inserted the steam needle into my pilot hole. wiggled the neck for about 30 seconds. Gave the clamps one small squeeze and Pop! The neck was off. The joint was barely wet. Over a 16th inch of crystallized glue on the neck dovetail and the body of the guitar was pretty much clean and free of glue. I don't think this was ever a good tight fit.

2 more small casualties. 2 small chips out of the side of the heel. I found the pieces and glued them back in. Otherwise totally clean.

[johna2u]

Got the holes drilled and the inserts installed. Bolted the guitar back together. I thought maybe the bolts would draw it tight enough to not need to do any shaving of the heel. Nope, still needs it.

Now to the trimming and shaving.

Oh, yeah. One more small casualty. One small crack in the dovetail from screwing in the inserts. Glued and clamped it. I was afraid the heel would shear off but it went pretty well.

Ill post pictures later.

[johna2u]

Well here is how my day went on my Harmony neck reset adventure.

I have one of those plastic commercial utility carts. I put a small furniture pad on it and put the guitar on that. Made sort a cradling gurney.
You can see all my surgical tools ready for action.



I cut a piece of 3/4" plywood to cover the top of the guitar. I notched it out for the tongue of the fingerboard. This served two purposes. A heat shield while I was heating the tongue to free it from the top and clamping block to spread the pressure over the surface of the guitar top. (you can see the crater where my position marker caught fire and flamed out. I did not see that one coming).


I rested the heel on the plastic rim of the cart and used two clamps to add pressure to the top as I steamed it and gently wiggled the neck.


The guitar was firmly strapped to the cart. It was not going anywhere.



Took about 30 seconds for the neck to pop off. The joint barely got wet.


My custom modification. Sort of a compromise between a traditional neck reset and a saw off and bolt on. I took the guitar apart properly but added two 1/4 by 20 threaded inserts into dovetail. They are long enough to reach back into the heel a bit. I did this because I was afraid I would screw up the guitar if I glued it and it ended up crooked or something. I guess since this is my own modification I will call it the "California Chicken Neck Reset". Takes the worry out of it cuz you can always take it back apart.



The view from the inside. I used 2) 1 1/2" Stainless steel 1/4x20 bolts, fender and lock washers.


Final result. Nice low action and plenty of saddle if I wanted to go a bit lower. Intonation seems much better.


Looks pretty clean. There are a couple of chips on the other side of the heeI will need to fix.


It actually ended up straighter than it was before.


So a couple of issues remain. I need to order a pearl dot from Stewmac. I want to add a couple of shims to the dovetail just to make sure everything is nice and tight.

The tongue extension is floating above the guitar top. Do I really need to address that? It doesn't look bad. I think I am going to keep this as a bolt on so I don't want to glue the extension. I could just leave it as is or maybe run a small screw from underneath after adding a shim to the underside of the tongue.

This was fun and I did not destroy my guitar. Woo Hoo!

[Hot Vibrato]

Congratulations! That is awesome! I would definitely glue the fingerboard extension down once you're happy with the fit (or attach it somehow). A screw or two might work too. The fingerboard isn't very thick, so wood screws might not be a great idea. Small brass inserts and machine screws would be cool, but that would be more work. I'd just glue it. I'm honestly not sure if it's necessary to add shims to fill the gaps in the dovetail, but I probably would if it were my guitar (or a customer's).

Great job on engineering your neck removal rig. Very clever. The bolt-on modification is brilliant, and I hope to try it some time.

I've had a plastic inlay ignite once before too. Wish I'd thought to warn you. It's the kind of mistake you only make once. Thankfully, this is only an issue if the inlays are celluloid plastic.

[johna2u]

Thanks! I am pretty proud of myself. Beginners luck I guess. I was thinking about the tongue and I think you are right. It does need to be secure to prevent sideways wiggle. But I think I will add a very small insert into the shim I make and put a small "wing bolt" there to cinch it down. That will create triangulation between the sides of the heel and the wing bolt.

This was super fun and I want to do it again. I definitely would not do this for a customer because I can see how it could go very wrong. But if someone wanted me to help them I'd do it.

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[johna2u]

Second thoughts on the tongue. I was just playing the guitar. Sounds great, no buzzing, good intonation. Above the 12th fret it buzzes like crazy. That tongue definitely needs to come down. Gluing it is probably the best idea.

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You got plenty of advice on how to do it correctly, actually took it apart correctly...then assaulted it with bolts? Unbelievable.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

You got plenty of advice on how to do it correctly, actually took it apart correctly...then assaulted it with bolts? Unbelievable.

?

What's wrong with a strong mechanical joint that's easier to disassemble than a glued-in dovetail?

[johna2u]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

You got plenty of advice on how to do it correctly, actually took it apart correctly...then assaulted it with bolts? Unbelievable.

Sorry you disapprove. It is not something that could not be undone by removing the inserts and gluing a mahogany dowel in the holes. Personally I think it is awesome!

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[JLS]

So a couple of issues remain. I need to order a pearl dot from Stewmac. I want to add a couple of shims to the dovetail just to make sure everything is nice and tight.

You don't need to. The bolted-up joint is tight.

The tongue extension is floating above the guitar top. Do I really need to address that? It doesn't look bad. I think I am going to keep this as a bolt on so I don't want to glue the extension. I could just leave it as is or maybe run a small screw from underneath after adding a shim to the underside of the tongue.

Yes, wedge. I glue them to the underside of the extension, and VERY LIGHTLY to the top, for the next guy that has to remove the neck for whatever reason.

This was fun and I did not destroy my guitar. Woo Hoo![/QUOTE]

( read title to this post

[johna2u]

Originally Posted by JLS

So a couple of issues remain. I need to order a pearl dot from Stewmac. I want to add a couple of shims to the dovetail just to make sure everything is nice and tight.

You don't need to. The bolted-up joint is tight.

The tongue extension is floating above the guitar top. Do I really need to address that? It doesn't look bad. I think I am going to keep this as a bolt on so I don't want to glue the extension. I could just leave it as is or maybe run a small screw from underneath after adding a shim to the underside of the tongue.

Yes, wedge. I glue them to the underside of the extension, and VERY LIGHTLY to the top, for the next guy that has to remove the neck for whatever reason.

This was fun and I did not destroy my guitar. Woo Hoo!

( read title to this post[/QUOTE]
Yeah. It was worth it. I want to do it again. Plus my Harmony has brand new life and has rejoined the ranks of the playable.

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[johna2u]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

You got plenty of advice on how to do it correctly, actually took it apart correctly...then assaulted it with bolts? Unbelievable.

I do agree with you that a wood to wood joint is better. As two pieces of wood properly and tightly joined together will last longer than a metal to wood joint. As the wood flexes over time the metal fastener will ream out the hole in the wood. Making the joint loose. Whereas a wood to wood joint will flex as if it were one piece of wood.

But over time both joints will need to be repaired and the metal to wood joint is easier to fix and causes less trauma on the guitar. Tonally I would think as long as the neck and the heel block are butted up tight to each other it should be no different. Unless you are talking about a fine violin maybe. But this is a mass produced Harmony and my joint is tighter than the original factory set up, considering the thickness of the glue I found. There was very little wood to wood contact.

Plus the way I did it is completely reversible. Something I like to make sure I do when I restore furniture.

So why do you say I assaulted it with bolts? What do you see as the problem with that?

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[Earl49]

Originally Posted by johna2u

The tongue extension is floating above the guitar top. Do I really need to address that? It doesn't look bad. I think I am going to keep this as a bolt on so I don't want to glue the extension. I could just leave it as is or maybe run a small screw from underneath after adding a shim to the underside of the tongue.

Order a couple of extra pearl dots and put in a new matching pair of marker dots at the 18th fret, mirroring the pair on the 12th fret. Then you can bolt down the tongue of the fret board nicely and cover the bolts with the dots (the way that many inexpensive guitars bolt on the bridges). And congrats on the success of your work.

[johna2u]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Order a couple of extra pearl dots and put in a new matching pair of marker dots at the 18th fret, mirroring the pair on the 12th fret. Then you can bolt down the tongue of the fret board nicely and cover the bolts with the dots (the way that many inexpensive guitars bolt on the bridges). And congrats on the success of your work.

Great idea.

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