Congratulations to those who fretted their own guitars...

[Jackknifegypsy]

....you are all geniuses.

This is without a doubt the most troubling task of guitar rehabbing or building I've yet to come across.

At least with placing new bridges, nuts and saddles, I once in a while managed to do it. Not so with this fretting nonsense.

Now it makes complete sense where the word "Fret" comes from. When people tell someone else "don't fret over".....this or that....it's clear that it came from the first person to ever take a piece of hardwood (heaven help the guy who decided on Ebony, Padauk, or some other highly chip prone wood) and attempt to place a roughly 2 inch piece of nickel plated wire, with some barbs on its tongue into a tinily narrow space that can't be accurately measured, knew that the word would enter the lexicon as negative. Guitarists are artists, but so again are the people who can build these things, albeit of another type entirely.

I'm certain there will be those that can do this job, an entire 24 fret board in 15 minutos while balancing on a beam, chewing gum, and rubbing their bellies with one hand in the opposite direction from the other, circling their head.

But I sure ain't one of them. 7 hours now devoted to the task and I haven't yet gotten one fret to sit plumb, level and square without hollowing out -----what my digital micrometer tells me is a .075 gouge in the board so that the fret sits all the way down, on its shoulders, and then CAd in place. Cause the tang-seat method is proving to be possible only by black magic, voodoo or selling one's soul to the devil.

I'll keep at it, but whoever said this is a fairly routine task is a jokester. Or a werewolf.

Or using a jig, from LMI. Which is already on order as is the exact fret saw to match the fret wire.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

....you are all geniuses.

This is without a doubt the most troubling task of guitar rehabbing or building I've yet to come across.

At least with placing new bridges, nuts and saddles, I once in a while managed to do it. Not so with this fretting nonsense.

Now it makes complete sense where the word "Fret" comes from. When people tell someone else "don't fret over".....this or that....it's clear that it came from the first person to ever take a piece of hardwood (heaven help the guy who decided on Ebony, Padauk, or some other highly chip prone wood) and attempt to place a roughly 2 inch piece of nickel plated wire, with some barbs on its tongue into a tinily narrow space that can't be accurately measured, knew that the word would enter the lexicon as negative. Guitarists are artists, but so again are the people who can build these things, albeit of another type entirely.

I'm certain there will be those that can do this job, an entire 24 fret board in 15 minutos while balancing on a beam, chewing gum, and rubbing their bellies with one hand in the opposite direction from the other, circling their head.

But I sure ain't one of them. 7 hours now devoted to the task and I haven't yet gotten one fret to sit plumb, level and square without hollowing out -----what my digital micrometer tells me is a .075 gouge in the board so that the fret sits all the way down, on its shoulders, and then CAd in place. Cause the tang-seat method is proving to be possible only by black magic, voodoo or selling one's soul to the devil.

I'll keep at it, but whoever said this is a fairly routine task is a jokester. Or a werewolf.

Or using a jig, from LMI. Which is already on order as is the exact fret saw to match the fret wire.

To get the frets to hold in with the tangs requires really precisely and accurately slotted fret slots. Frets will rarely go in flat or perfectly to the radius of the board. A new fret job or a re-fret will require a fret dressing to eliminate the variation in depth of fret seating.

[redir]

Guitar building is interesting because there are so many different steps. Some find one task impossible while others find them easy. In the end though with experience you get reasonably good at the stuff you find difficult at first. I never had too much trouble fretting but bending sides accurately was always hard for me.

So first things first if you are hammering in the frets make sure that your fret saw is compatible with your fret wire or if you buy a pre slotted board buy the matching fret wire. Make sure the slots are deeper then the tang, this not only makes it sure to fit but is good for future refrets when resurfacing the board is necessary particularly on bound fret boards.

Second the best hammer is a dead blow hammer and you need to back the neck up with something (assuming you are fretting on a board glued to the neck). A bag of buck shot works great at dampening the hammer blows but a bag of kitty litter or something like that works well too.

There are all kinds of techniques for hammering so just find one that works for you. Some like to start in the middle while others like to start at the ends of the wire. All in all though 4-5 hits with a hammer should set the fret. Be deliberate and firm with the hammer strokes.

Just keep at it and you will get it good luck.

[runamuck]

Even for a beginner this doesn't sound right.

Are you sure your frets slots are compatible with the
size of the tang you're using?

[Tom West]

Once my frets are tapped into place, I lightly clamp a caul on top of the fret to insure it is fully seated, then run CA glue on either side of the fret. Clean up with acetone and a single edge razor blade.
If the board was flat and slots correct so the fret can seat, you most likely will not have to level and redress frets. If you do it will be very minimal.
Tom

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Tom West

If the board was flat and slots correct so the fret can seat, you most likely will not have to level and redress frets. If you do it will be very minimal.

That has been my experience as well.

[Jackknifegypsy]

....I don't see how it is possible for anyone to get 20 + frets square, level, and plumb without one.

Fret wire shouldn't be sold in straight lengths but should come wound into a circle, nor should they be sold without a corresponding fret saw blade that is integral to it, matching the tang width and depth. Like allen bolts come with with an allen wrench in DIY projects.

I have succumbed to the jig way of doing it but I am flummoxed that I cannot get even a few of the frets perfect, though I will keep at it to see if those who claim they can do it, and have done it, without one.

Some of these claims and even videos on the 'net ---of freestyle fret placement ---are looking very very suspicious.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

Like allen bolts come with with an allen wrench in DIY projects.

Building a guitar is not like putting IKEA furniture together.

IKEA furniture is heavily engineered to allow it to be put together successfully by almost anyone.

The guitar builder, largely, must do his (or her) own "engineering" to produce a successful outcome. That involves developing specific skills and knowledge. The quickest and least frustrating way to develop those skills and knowledge is to be shown, hands-on, how to do so by someone who already has those skills and knowledge. An internet discussion forum cannot do that.

A guitar kit does much of the "engineering" for you, though not all, to reduce the amount of "thinking" that the kit-builder needs to do.

Ignore that as much as you like, but you'll continue to have frustrating, trial-and-error experiences and wonder about the "magic" that others employ to make it happen successfully.

Read that twice.

[Bugeyed]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

snip
Fret wire shouldn't be sold in straight lengths but should come wound into a circle, nor should they be sold without a corresponding fret saw blade that is integral to it, matching the tang width and depth. snip

Are you bending the frets to match the radius of the fretboard before installing them?
BTW Fretwire does come in a roll, but you still have to bend them to match your fretboard radius, as the range is from about 9.5"r to 16"r. A 16".

kev

[steveyam]

This is where getting oneself a good luthier's toolset comes in. In the early 70s I would hand cut my frets from the rolled up length with a junior hacksaw, then bend them to shape as best as I could using fingers, pliers, cutters, whatever, then fine tune the length with a file. Then hammer them in with a plastic headed hammer that I thought made me a luthier. All done on a 'kitchen table'. Now, I have tools to aid every step of the way; I have a bending machine to bend the fretwire to the correct radius, dedicated cutters to cut squarely to length, a grinding wheel fines tunes the length, accurately radiused fret presses are used to get the frets in, a dedicated tool is used to clean out the channels, files and tools to finish the ends, dressing kit.. etc etc etc. You have to make the choice; if you want to do it well, get a toolset. But then of course, unless you're going to be doing it for other people too, is it worth it just to fret a handful of guitars? All I'll say is, it costs a lot of money to get all the dedicated tools for a refret. And from my viewpoint, my refretting ability, neatness and accuracy went up several fold as I got better equipped.

[Jackknifegypsy]

You are right. With the right tools for the job it becomes immensely easier and to get it right consistently.

I don't mind buying precision tools, I just wanted to avoid going all the way by 'Jigging it".

Bugeyed: There is no radius on these boards. They are both off the guitar, one is still attached to the neck, the other is a piece of Padauk, fret slotted for a Dread, that I flipped over to make a replacement board for a parlor that has a fret board that is driving me nuts trying to level end to end and side to side. I'm almost down to the neck surface in doing so. Hence, the new fret board.

Charles, I hear you about spending the time with a Luthier willing to part with some for a fee. I haven't ruled it out, but I'd like to have at least the things that have stymied me lined up. 1) placing the saddle accurately 2) intonation 3) fret slotting, and installing. I expect that Side bending will also give me conniptions so I'd like to have attempted that as well

[Tom West]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

Fret wire shouldn't be sold in straight lengths but should come wound into a circle, nor should they be sold without a corresponding fret saw blade that is integral to it, matching the tang width and depth.

LMI sells their fret wire in about 8" rolls and they sell the correct fret saws. They will even cut the fret slots in your board to the required scale length to match their fret wire.
Tom

[Jackknifegypsy]

Thx for the LMI referral.

I'd like to attempt to do a few more boards on my own before i yield to the "IKEA" phase.

Already I feel like I'm cheating just buying the twins: fret saw and curled wire.

[Jackknifegypsy]

Since the fret saw and curled wire hasn't arrived, I have been taking advantage of Home Depot's generous return policy.

Confirmed: Over a dozen times I have flawlessly placed Stew-mac's fret wire into three pieces of different hardwood to include: Oak, Padauk, and rosewood. The saw blade to use: Home Depot's Buck Coping saw blades, 5 pak for $10.00. Coupled with Stew-Mac's Med Fret Wire, 2 ft lengths, product number 0148, you should have a perfect fit every time.

Tip: Without a curl in the wire since it arrived in 2' lengths, take the cut piece of fret wire, after it has been inserted into the fret slot for proper length, and then put it back in the slot of the front edge of the fret board on a 45 degree angle, and----ever so slightly and gently, with a few fingers on both ends, press the ends with the middle in the slot, and the do the same about a 1/2 " inch on either side (the fret will not appear to bend any more but if you have some strength in your fingers, it will), just enough to give you a 'hammer target' in the middle of the fret. You are aiming for a slight arc.

Insert the fret back into the slot, hit it a good one in the middle with the hammer, and the ends will simply move to the edges of the fret board. Tap a few times on each edge in alternate strikes, and I can practically guarantee a perfect, secure, and snug fit every time.

As soon as the 2' fret wire arrives, if that is what you are using, take one---or however many you have ordered ----and hold the ends of the fret wire and attempt to make a 3/4 circle---- with the tang perpendicular to the floor. That will 'loosen' the wire for further bending when you cut it and the closer you get to the center of the 2' length, less and less bending of each cut off fret will be required.

Redir: You're right.

CAVEAT: this approach is a workable one for medium or thicker fret wire in one or two offs but is not recommended for the builder with multiple guitar builds in mind. Read thoroughly the whole thread.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy

The saw blade to use: Home Depot's Buck Coping saw blades, 5 pak for $10.00.

You are using a coping saw to saw fret slots in a fingerboard???