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Old 03-12-2018, 10:11 AM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Default B string too sharp at 3rd fret 🔪

I like to tune to octaves, and to check different strings against each other at both fretted and open octaves. On the second string, I find the 3rd fret D is 4 or 5 cents sharp against the open B. Some measurements on the B string:

Fret 1, +1
Fret 2, + 1.5
Fret 3, +4-5
Fret 5, +4
Fret 7, +1.5
Fret 12, +4

For comparison, the 1st string is within .5 cents on every fret against the open string.

The sharpness of the 3rd fret D is bothering me. What might be the cause and remedy? The nut slot seems low enough. Thanks for your insights.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:41 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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Sharp on the lower frets usually indicates a nut issue...

Sharp all the way up is intonation in general...have you tried a compensated saddle? What kind of guitar are we talking about here?
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:20 AM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
Sharp on the lower frets usually indicates a nut issue...

Sharp all the way up is intonation in general...have you tried a compensated saddle? What kind of guitar are we talking about here?
It's a Blackbird Savoy, an 0-sized guitar made of a linen/resin material called ekoa. It has a man-made compensated saddle.

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Old 03-12-2018, 11:54 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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This is a stupid question, but since this is a bit odd, I have to rule out everything...is the saddle installed backwards?
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:59 AM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
This is a stupid question, but since this is a bit odd, I have to rule out everything...is the saddle installed backwards?
A reasonable question. But no, saddle is in correctly with the comp at the B string.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:08 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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You need to compensate the saddle more. Lengthen the B string.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:42 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Fret positions are a compromise for comfort of manufacturing, so no fret truly sits where it needs to sit, we fit a flat piece of nickel silver under all 6 strings at the one location and expect it to play in tune for all 6 strings.

Provided, nut height is good, saddle height is good, relief is adjusted correctly, then we do the following.

Understanding fret positions are a compromise, we can adjust a few things around it, if the open string is to pitch "B", then the 12th fret position should also be a "B" exactly, if B is sharp when fretted then the saddle for B needs to go back towards the end of the guitar, if B is flat then the saddle needs to be moved towards the nut end of the guitar.

Once the saddle has been set correctly further adjustments can be made at the nut end.

We can tweak intonation and get very good improvements, but look up true temperament fretting system, this shows you how crazy the frets can get to achieve in tune.

Steve

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Old 03-12-2018, 06:17 PM
endpin endpin is offline
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Fret wear?
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:24 PM
Imbler Imbler is offline
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Those numbers look odd to me. I'd probably try a new b string before I went further.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:48 PM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbler View Post
Those numbers look odd to me. I'd probably try a new b string before I went further.
Will try a new B string.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:50 PM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endpin View Post
Fret wear?
Doesn't seem likely. The guitar is less than a year old, and has stainless frets, and they look okay.
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Last edited by Purfle Haze; 03-12-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 06:52 PM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
We can tweak intonation and get very good improvements, but look up true temperament fretting system, this shows you how crazy the frets can get to achieve in tune.

Steve

Yikes! Plus filler characters
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:43 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
... look up true temperament fretting system ...
It is still a compromise, just a different set of them.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:21 PM
Purfle Haze Purfle Haze is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
It is still a compromise, just a different set of them.
I don't really expect to have every fret be perfect. This particular string/fret combo (B at 3, open D) just grabs my attention. Now I must go locate my snow shovel. Or an Ovation.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:43 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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The b string should be about 1.5 mm longer that the g string, and about .5 mm longer than the e string. IMO, of course, but my tuner agrees.
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