Memorizing Songs

[Huskyman]

The last couple of years I have been learning and trying to get better at fingerstyle. Over that time I have done a course and now I have a course on how to make my own arrangements which I think will be helpful once I get into that.

My question is about memorizing songs. Is there a better way to do it? I have all my fingerstyle arrangements on my Kindle in a program that will allow me to look at them while I play but I don't like doing it that way, especially if I want to play for someone. The only other alternative is to memorize the song and I have done that a few times. I usually do two bars at a time and when I am done I move on to the next two bars. To make it work I need to do this from the very beginning. I have memorized some pretty long songs doing this. Is there a better way to do it? Learn the melody first or the chords first and then go from there? It just seems that the way I do it takes a long time.

It feels really mechanical to me to play something for someone and be looking at my kindle the whole time.

[NormanKliman]

If you haven't been trying for very long, keep at it and it'll get easier.

A good memory is one of those things that many outstanding musicians have in common. I've never had a particularly good one, but, after over 30 years of learning guitar music, I've got a lot more memorized than I ever thought would be possible.

It helps to listen many times to the music you're trying to memorize: either the recording before trying to learn the piece or yourself playing it afterward.

[reeve21]

Huskyman,

I could have written your post. How come I can remember chord progrssions and lyrics but fingerstyle is so hard? Well, there is a lot more going on, literally dozens of choices to be made in every measure.

In my struggles I have learned a few things.

Learning something by ear means it sticks faster and longer than with written materials. I've experienced this with chords and words. But I'm not at the point where I have the skills to learn fingerstyle solely by ear.

In another thread there mention of a book titled "Brainjo" by an M.D./banjo player. He states that entirely different parts of the brain (or at least different neural pathways) are used to learn by ear and by sight. So learning something by tab "first" is of no help, and may even be a hindrance, to memorizing it. But he is not a "never-tabber" by any means. His point is to use it responsibly in conjunction with a lot of focused listening and humming or singing the melody, and then get rid of it ASAP. Learn a few measures, get them in your memory, and move on. Playing through the entire piece by sight time after time is a much slower way to memorize things.

The M.D. goes on to state that great players can call up tunes at whim not because they have them memorized note for note, but because they have the skills to be able to translate what they hear in their heads to their instruments in real time. A listening skill, not a reading skill.

I have found that it is easier to memorize songs I know really well, with a strong melody. Deep River Blues came to me real quick.

Another approach is not to try to memorize note for note, but make up your own arrangements on the fly. Toby Walker just posted his version of Avalon Blues in Show and Tell. I'm learning MJH's version note for note (from a tabbed transcription) and Toby's is just a listenable and enjoyable, without being an exact copy. David Hamburger follows this approach as well, and he teaches it online.

Hope that helps.

[Chipotle]

Repetition is the soul of learning.


Repetition is the soul of learning.


Repetition is the soul of learning.


A wise teacher once repeated this to me, many times. I never forgot it.

There's really no shortcut. Use aids (printed music, notes for lyrics etc.) as long as you need, but get rid of them as soon as you can. It'll stick eventually.

[rick-slo]

wrong thread entry

[TBman]

When I was much younger and strummed/flat picked songs were very easy to remember. Now that I play instrumental finger style its almost impossible to memorize something. I had a mini stroke that didn't help in that area and getting older also is a hindrance. Just playing it a million times will do the trick if you don't get tired of playing it all the time.

[Huskyman]

Thanks everyone for the info and advice. Very good.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Huskyman

…My question is about memorizing songs. Is there a better way to do it?

Hi Husky-man

We have four sons, and when they were learning MATH in school, I asked my assistant administrator (a math major in college) what the best way to learn multiplication was.

Without hesitation she said "There are four ways people do multiplication in their heads…" and proceeded to describe them to me. Of the four, of course I was doing one (which I considered best).

So I went home and individually sat down with my guys, and each of them was using a different one of the four she described! Amazed me. Then I asked my wife, and she memorized multiplication very different from me.

Players memorize music differently. In fact, some players never memorize music, and are tied to charts and scores all their life.

Some players are like primitive village story tellers who memorize tales and repeat them verbatim. For the sake of accuracy and legacy they carefully attend to the details.

Others learn stories, and then re-tell them in their own vernacular.

I memorize by learning songs in my head, and then as I start repeatedly playing them, they are just 'there'. I rarely every refer back to a chord chart, or other aids. I learn it the 'original' way, and then alter it for my own use.

If it's important I not change it, I don't (for performances). What I do on my own time or at a jam is a totally different matter.

I'm very tied to (and attracted to) chord progressions, which I learn in either alpha-numeric or Roman-numeral form…not specific to the key the song is actually in. Makes transposing a breeze later.

While I'm playing/learning songs, the form of the song I'm learning also sticks (order of intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc).

I know other players who see the score in their head and 'read it' as they play.

I'm sure there are fancier methods than what I use, and someone has undoubtedly written a book or published a video series on it. But be assured, if there is a method, it's probably just that person's version of how they memorize things, and it may not universally apply.

I hope you land on your favorite soon, and put it to work for you!!!

[mclarry53]

This is a really interesting thread and helpful to me as I feel it takes me longer and longer to learn new (fingerstyle material) as I age. I have gotten the advice to commit a few measures at a time to memory, but for me it is really difficult to have anything stick in my memory without the larger context of the piece's overall structure. Starting by memorizing shorts parts for me is like memorizing a sentence a word at a time without knowing what the whole sentence meant. Of course a short passage can also make some sense in itself, but it's not fully meaningful out of the context of the whole composition.

So I have to be able to play through a whole tune at least haltingly before I can really start committing it to memory. Of course, when I'm trying to learn something, I listen to recordings of it ad nauseam (my wife's term!), but it won't make sense to me on the guitar until I can play it through. Probably what I really need is serious ear training to be better able to go from listening to playing. Not recommending my method but just describing. As pointed out above, our brains aren't all the same and even our own brains aren't the same as they used to be.

Larry

[Mr. Jelly]

I like ljguitars answer. I guess I'm a story teller tied to the song structure. That along with any signature figures pretty much is my MO. I insist on having space to express myself while playing a song. So the areas of a song that are not pertinent to the identification of the song are areas of opportunity for me. But words are a whole different matter. I was traumatized as a child in grade school when they tasked me to memorize the Gettysburg Address. I never recovered.

[rllink]

When I first started memorizing my play list it was a long and frustrating process. But over the years it has gotten easier. As I've learned more and more songs I've learned to recognize more and more runs and progressions that lots of songs share in common. These days it isn't unusual to look at a song and recognize that I already know most of it. But it takes time.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rllink

When I first started memorizing my play list it was a long and frustrating process. But over the years it has gotten easier. As I've learned more and more songs I've learned to recognize more and more runs and progressions that lots of songs share in common. These days it isn't unusual to look at a song and recognize that I already know most of it. But it takes time.

The OP was talking about instrumental finger style though which may have progressions in them, but aren't presented in a manner that is consistent from one tune to the next. Songs, which have vocals, have the lyrics which are sort of a homing beacon for memorization.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

The OP was talking about instrumental finger style though which may have progressions in them, but aren't presented in a manner that is consistent from one tune to the next. Songs, which have vocals, have the lyrics which are sort of a homing beacon for memorization.

That's one of the challenges with learning fingerstyle from tab. When I teach tunes, I usually start by teaching the melody and the chord progression, then show how to put them together. If you can play the chords and melody alone, to me, it's a better framework for remembering the tune than trying to memorize a long stream of notes without any obvious structure. I also try to put the chord shapes I'm thinking about, in any tab I write, even if I'm not playing the entire shape.

One suggestion I've heard many times for memorizing a tune is to visualize yourself playing it in your head, away from the guitar, perhaps while listening to the piece. Spaced repetition is also a pretty established technique for memorizing anything, or at least keeping it memorized.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

That's one of the challenges with learning fingerstyle from tab. When I teach tunes, I usually start by teaching the melody and the chord progression, then show how to put them together. If you can play the chords and melody alone, to me, it's a better framework for remembering the tune than trying to memorize a long stream of notes without any obvious structure. I also try to put the chord shapes I'm thinking about, in any tab I write, even if I'm not playing the entire shape.

One suggestion I've heard many times for memorizing a tune is to visualize yourself playing it in your head, away from the guitar, perhaps while listening to the piece. Spaced repetition is also a pretty established technique for memorizing anything, or at least keeping it memorized.

Yes, I was working on a few of your Christmas arrangements last night and noticed the chord diagrams.

I'll have to try the self visualization technique.

[Huskyman]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Husky-man

We have four sons, and when they were learning MATH in school, I asked my assistant administrator (a math major in college) what the best way to learn multiplication was.

Without hesitation she said "There are four ways people do multiplication in their heads…" and proceeded to describe them to me. Of the four, of course I was doing one (which I considered best).

So I went home and individually sat down with my guys, and each of them was using a different one of the four she described! Amazed me. Then I asked my wife, and she memorized multiplication very different from me.

Players memorize music differently. In fact, some players never memorize music, and are tied to charts and scores all their life.

Some players are like primitive village story tellers who memorize tales and repeat them verbatim. For the sake of accuracy and legacy they carefully attend to the details.

Others learn stories, and then re-tell them in their own vernacular.

I memorize by learning songs in my head, and then as I start repeatedly playing them, they are just 'there'. I rarely every refer back to a chord chart, or other aids. I learn it the 'original' way, and then alter it for my own use.

If it's important I not change it, I don't (for performances). What I do on my own time or at a jam is a totally different matter.

I'm very tied to (and attracted to) chord progressions, which I learn in either alpha-numeric or Roman-numeral form…not specific to the key the song is actually in. Makes transposing a breeze later.

While I'm playing/learning songs, the form of the song I'm learning also sticks (order of intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc).

I know other players who see the score in their head and 'read it' as they play.

I'm sure there are fancier methods than what I use, and someone has undoubtedly written a book or published a video series on it. But be assured, if there is a method, it's probably just that person's version of how they memorize things, and it may not universally apply.

I hope you land on your favorite soon, and put it to work for you!!!

Thanks. So far my method has been to memorize around 2 bars and then move on to the next two bars. I have done quite a few like that. I'm not sure if that's the best way for me.

What I would like to try is to learn the chords and melody and then look at the tab and try it. I know a lot of things I learn fingerstyle even though the tab is written out for every single note the most important thing is to make sure you have the melody notes hitting correctly and the rest you can fill in without even thinking about it. Some people who write the tabs even offer that as a suggestion so I may try that next.

Thanks again.