The "(un)importance" of acoustic traits when amplifying?

[Tico]

Originally Posted by semolinapilcher

A wonderful, lightly-built acoustic that resonates for an hour is... more likely to feed back.

Yeah, who in their right mind would want a Ferrari?

[ii Cybershot ii]

If OP's point was really true, why can't I just play a bass guitar, banjo, or ukulele and put any pickup on it? Would it sound like a guitar?

[lmacmil]

IMO, the only people in the audience who care what the guitar sounds like are other guitar players and probably only 1/2 of them care. The non-guitar players care about the music. If they like your song selection and you do a decent job, they are going to be satisfied.

You can spend countless hours and $ chasing the "ultimate" acoustic amplified tone but once you find it, you'll have truly satisfied only one person (albeit the most important person.)

[lodi_55]

I’m less concerned with he price tag on the guitar and am just trying to get the sound I want. For me, that equates to investing some money in a high quality guitar (absolutely makes a difference to my ear), very good onboard electronics and a good amp. For my playing style, the setup ive settled on is a couple of nice Taylor Nylons with ES-N electronics and ether an AER 60 or Bose Compact

[gfa]

I think the acoustic traits are less important when amplifying, but not irrelevant. I much prefer the sound of a mic'd guitar, but using a mic comes with limitations. Accurately reproducing the unamplified sound can be a bigger or a lesser priority, depending on the situation.

I recently saw a show where the opener played a D-18 with a piezo and the main act played a J45 with a Baggs dual source pickup of some kind. Outdoors, about 75 people in the audience, very nice PA. If the measure of "good" sound is how close it was to the unamplified sound of the guitar, the Martin was terrible and the Gibson was fantastic.

And, as others have mentioned, almost nobody but us cares about this.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

It's not that the unplugged tone is unimportant or doesn't affect the amplified sound, it's that EQ, speakers, effects, modeling, filtering, etc. often render the guitar's "natural" tone irrelevant.

If I was buying a guitar that was exclusively going to be plugged in -- especially one with a UST -- I'd worry about playabilty more than tone. The money I'd save on solid wood construction would be better spent on good electronics and tone-shaping pedals.

If I used a microphone system of any kind, I'd pay more attention to the unplugged tone.

Yup. This^^^^^^^^^^

[printer2]

Originally Posted by ii Cybershot ii

If OP's point was really true, why can't I just play a bass guitar, banjo, or ukulele and put any pickup on it? Would it sound like a guitar?

Listen to the whole vid,



I'll let you be the judge.

[Jack Orion]

I don't think that any pickup system truly accurate represents what we hear (and feel) when we play an acoustic guitar, but I don't think that means you can plug any old plywood guitar in with a half decent pickup and it will sound the same as the same pickup in a better guitar.

The main reason I think for this is the interaction between player and instrument is the biggest part of ANY performance whether it be amplified or not - if you're playing a guitar that you feel comfortable with, that you feel resonate against you, that plays effortlessly and in tune across the fingerboard, that holds its tuning - in short a guitar that inspires you, you will perform better and that will come across to the audience regardless of piezo quack or pendulum rack mounted 32 band eqs!

Therefore, if you feel comfortable taking your best/favourite guitar out to the venues you play, take it! Yes, it probably won't sound exactly like it does in the perfect situation, but there are plenty of pickups out there that can give a 'pleasant enough' plugged in sound that will enable to you to perform to the best of your ability with your number one guitar...

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by Daniel Grenier

I'm curious...

Where do you place the importance, or more to the point, the "un-importance" of top notch acoustic traits when plugging in - especially with non-mic amplification.

IOW, why buy an expensive Martin (or other hi-end) if you intend to plug in only? As long as the guitar has good playability, I think buying a basic guitar w/good pick up will produce as-good results regardless of its acoustic pedigree.

Agreed? Disagreed?

Exactly my position on the topic. I only play plugged and can dial in specific tones and effects to suit the music being played. For that I use a decent classical with a cut and electronics, and a good amp. The classical suits my style and the nylon strings don't overdrive the Piezo source like steel strings do. Adapting the classical to all techniques is the learning curve part of it. Guitar pedigree has got nothing to do with it. It comes down to the skills to make and move the sound to expectations.

[printer2]

And if you do have a resonant guitar and you need to use it in odd situations where the sound level is high you can also try a feedback buster in the soundhole.

[Christian Reno]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

...You can't amplify what isn't there...

This sums it up nicely.

There seems to be a notion that "electronics" can overcome a poor acoustic sound. As the quote above so simply states "you can't amplify what isn't there", starting with the unamplified acoustic properties YOU like, will get you much closer to the amplified sound you will like.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by Christian Reno

This sums it up nicely.

There seems to be a notion that "electronics" can overcome a poor acoustic sound. As the quote above so simply states "you can't amplify what isn't there", starting with the unamplified acoustic properties YOU like, will get you much closer to the amplified sound you will like.

But it really depends on the situation. An acoustic guitar in a rock/country band in the bar circuit is not exactly a concert setting. One size does not fit all.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by lmacmil

IMO, the only people in the audience who care what the guitar sounds like are other guitar players and probably only 1/2 of them care. The non-guitar players care about the music. If they like your song selection and you do a decent job, they are going to be satisfied.

You can spend countless hours and $ chasing the "ultimate" acoustic amplified tone but once you find it, you'll have truly satisfied only one person (albeit the most important person.)

I disagree. Most people can't put it into words, but a great sound is noticed on some level.

Sometimes people complaining that something is "too loud," is because it's too loud in harsh or unpleasing frequencies. Sometimes it's the difference between people staying or leaving.

The quality of your sound is paramount, wether people can articulate that or not. There are rooms that are notoriously bad sounding in my area. That's why I always preach about having a board with mid sweeps and making sure to use negative EQ. It all starts with the sound source though.

[semolinapilcher]

Me: “A wonderful, lightly-built acoustic that resonates for an hour is... more likely to feed back.”

Originally Posted by Tico

Yeah, who in their right mind would want a Ferrari?

Me: Well, gosh, of course! But maybe not as much on the farm...

Ferraris perform better on pavement, and really sensitive instruments are tougher to amplify over a talkative crowd. And if you’re in a band, the louder they play the better off you’d be with the musical equivalent of a Jeep, which is flexible in a different dimension.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by dneal

The problem with that argument is that it ignores that the top has to vibrate (be in motion) to move air. How much of that vibration is also "picked up" by the pickup?

Yes! I had this experience last weekend. I was playing a short set at an outdoor festival, and the forecast was for breezy conditions. Not wanting to be dependent on external microphones in strong wind, I ran out and bought a soundhole pickup, thinking I was going to use it for the one set and then put it away in a drawer somewhere. But the pickup performed spectacularly on my Martin 000-15m, and I'm convinced that something more was happening than just my strings activating the magnet.

Others noticed it as well. The guitar seemed to be working quite well with that particular pickup. There was a synergy there, and I wish I knew what was creating it.