#31
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I hate this Cites deal as much as everyone else and it can be dragged around in circles for years. Bottom line is that right now the manufacturers are using what they have in stock referring to limited materials such as Madagascar.
The big players have enough in stock for a while, but the bottom line is if the big players say no more, some will go to smaller luthiers. Don't tell me that money doesn't talk. If you want Braz or Madi and you got the money, the luthiers will be more than happy to get it for you. Right or wrong, money talks. |
#32
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Once the sale of woods like Madagascar rosewood and other rosewoods become completely banned, guitars made from those woods might become as popular as tortoise shell pickguards, real fur coats and ivory piano keys. We might find a significant drop in the value of rosewood guitars due to decreased demand.
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#33
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"Locks are for honest people", and "Laws are for the law-abiding". Those who are determined to skirt the law will. I no longer own any rosewood guitars, or intend to cross international borders, so CITES does not apply to my collection. |
#34
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You can't unmake a guitar, so why vilify what is a part of musical history? It's different now that we are better educated and knowledgable about environmental issues, and for new builds we all have a choice and a conscience. In real and absolute terms, the guitar industry has had a miniscule impact on the use of endangered species.
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Martin Custom Shop Deep Body OM42 (Guatemalan Rosewood / Adirondack) Ernie Ball Aluminium Bronze 12-54's Dazzo 70's & SunnAudio Stage DI |
#35
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#36
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The music instrument industry's use of rosewood is a pin prick compared to that. The guitar industry is simply not responsible for the global rosewood illicit market in any substantial.fashion and punishing them and by extension musicians and guitarists the world over wont change that. On the other hand it is causing real damage in the form of threats to the liquidity of guitar companies and retailers and thus jobs and businesses owned by many human beings in the face of the fact that rosewood is necessary to create one of the two most recognisable tonal flavours in guitar (the other being mahogany). Thus creating an exemption for the music instrument isnt watering down necessary legislation - it is cutting back on an unnecessarily draconian imposition thta is causing real damage and hurt to thousands of people around the world for nothing.
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In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference... |
#37
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I wonder if this means Gibson and Martin could open factories in Brazil and export completed instruments? It says parts too.....precut backs and sides?
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If you put the government in charge of the Sahara desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand. |
#38
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"Nimby"?
One could just as easily characterise the lobbying of well funded environmental non governmental organisations who have been pressuring cites to impose a blanket ban as the agenda of people who have as their ultimate goal the Ban of All Products Of Flora and Fauna that Are Not Grown Or Reared on farms regardless of the effect on actual human lives around the world (BAPOFFAGOR? Lol doesnt roll off the tongue!!!) For instance it did not seem to matter to them that a blanket ban and requirement for permits for all rosewood would punish the most well run rosewood harvesting country in the world - India. Where all the rosewood made available for sale are carefully ensured to be harvested from tea plantations and not forests. It also didn't seem to matter tbat there is no way allowing an exemption for guitars would in any way enable the hongmu furniture makers to circumvent that exemption given the tiny amount of rosewood given that the very small quantities of rosewood in a guitar cannot be disassembled for use as furniture. Using a chair maker as an example isnt at all similar since chairs are furniture which means that u r talking about the very same industry that is causing the depredations on rosewood worldwide. A solid rosewood chair is in fact one of hongmu futrniture's specialities and it uses a lot of solid rosewood to make. This is completely different from rosewood used by guitarmakers.the piece of rosewood used for the back and sides of a guitar are very thin. The rosewood used for overlays etc are usually waste wood. In these circumstances, why see a completely necessary and justified exemption for guitars especially to be somehow a slippery slope? There are justified exemptions and there are those which are unjustified - the cites assembly will debate them. I think it is clear for guitars that it is justified. Quote:
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In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference... Last edited by gitarro; 10-15-2018 at 07:20 PM. |
#39
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#40
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The treaty still applies. There is a personal exemption for a personal instrument which contains no more than 10 kilos of the regulated woods. If and only if it is being transported for non-commercial purposes.
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Larrivee OM-03RE; O-01 Martin D-35; Guild F-212; Tacoma Roadking Breedlove American Series C20/SR Rainsong SFTA-FLE; WS3000; CH-PA Taylor GA3-12, Guild F-212 https://markhorning.bandcamp.com/music |
#41
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Totally agree. If bans are being lifted there will be even more incentive to take the last of the last. Natural forests are dwindling in size as we speak. Also if the ban is lifted even partially it will be abused by loggers claiming to work for a guitar builder and shipping the timber for other purposes instead. A complete ban on logging natural forests is needef unfortunately. We don’t have enough left. |
#42
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This is great news. I was starting to get sick of dragging that plastic trombone with me everywhere I go.....
Fred |
#43
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See post #20 and dozens of others that have made the same point on similar threads.
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#44
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Exactly what I said; for personal use. If you have a 10 kilo guitar or even a 5 kilo one, you can keep it.
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#45
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Go and speak with specialist high end sellers (e.g. a well known online Martin Custom Shop seller who is also a sponsor of this forum) and ask them how their international sales have plummeted since the CITES regulations came into force.
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Martin Custom Shop Deep Body OM42 (Guatemalan Rosewood / Adirondack) Ernie Ball Aluminium Bronze 12-54's Dazzo 70's & SunnAudio Stage DI |