Why do Yairi guitars not hold value?

[old iron rider]

I own four Yairis. I love em. My 127 is a wonderful fingrpicking nylon that I have had for about 15yrs. My others are are also nylons, and each has a personality of their own. They are all from the 80's and before. IMO the newer ones don't have the same sound. Can't quite place what it is thats different, but they differ from the old ones. I really could care less about resale value. In fact, I like the fact that these are sleeper guitars. Well built, and not over priced. I tend to hang on to my guitars, and I certainly don't buy them with resale on my mind. Its bad enough finding a guitar to match the player. I don't know how many guitars I test drive, but finding keepers is the name of the game for me. So when I do find them, they become part of the family. Usually. To this day, I still have every Yairi I have ever bought.

[newton]

Originally Posted by steveyam

The fact remains, they don't do enough advertising and PR to become 'mainstream' in the field of acoustic guitars. The kiss of death. None of the truly famous names mentioned there are synonymous with Yairi. For example, Ritchie Blackmore may well play one, but he's know as a Strat player, not a Yairi.

Advertising and PR sell new product lines. The resale value (which is the actual topic of thread) is independent as to whether or not people are finding their favorite brands advertised in magazines. There is a 1938 Martin D-28 for sale on ebay right now for $47,999. When was the last time Martin ran an ad for their line of guitars from 1938? I'd say it's probably been awhile. It's resale value was not determined by an ad campaign but rather by word-of-mouth as time went by.

The most expensive Alvarez Yairi on ebay right now is a Series MMY1 Monte Montgomery Cutaway Dreadnought Acoustic-Elect​ric for $2719.99. I believe we all know who Monte Montgomery is but, nobody knows who played that Martin. So, the Martin is 74 years old, the Yairi is brand new. Who knows how much the Yairi will bring 74 years from now? But what ever passes for logic or rational thought at an auction (or on an online auction site) has more to do with a persons favorite memories of their first Harley Davidson Sportster back in '68 or the '54 Lincoln they made out in back in high school.

As for Yairi, the entire history of the companies classical guitars is barely as old as that 1938 Martin. Their steel string guitars have been available through the St. Louis Music supply co. for only 47 years.

What do you mean by "if at all"? Do you man sell them 'at all' or sell them for the same as what they paid for them? That's a pipe dream, to buy an expensive guitar, then sell it and get what you paid back for it.

That is a brilliant observation. People who buy an expensive Yairi don't sell them very often, regardless of the reason. They just don't. So, who knows what the value of a guitar that never gets sold again would be? Tri-back and lute backed Yairi's don't show up on ebay as often as vintage Martins for that matter. But at the low end of the scale, guitars (no matter how good the tone) that retailed for less than a grand sell for less than a grand and, they make up the lions share of the volume and, they also sell more quickly. This might give the false impression that just a bunch of cheap guitars are being made by any given company if one does not look at the bigger picture.

One simply cannot accurately predict the resale value of a make and model of a guitar that people are not willing to part with in the first place.

As far as I can tell, from checking on the interwebs just to be sure, Yairi's hold there resale value as well as that of any other company.

...am i am going to bed now. Good night all...

[stevejazzx]

Used a nylon yairi on my current cd
I just got it a couple months ago
I'm in love with it - it's almost perfect and I paid a very low price for it all things considered!

Steve

[james84]

I also think they suffer from being a bit overpriced to begin with so perhaps the second hand value is just them finding their true value.

I saw this guitar in the shop last summer and it hasn't moved, (maybe it has been there since 2008?):

http://www.electromusic.co.uk/K.-Yai...8-Natural.html

It hasn't sold because it is a laminated back and sides guitar priced at £950...

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by newton

Advertising and PR sell new product lines. The resale value (which is the actual topic of thread) is independent as to whether or not people are finding their favorite brands advertised in magazines. There is a 1938 Martin D-28 for sale on ebay right now for $47,999. When was the last time Martin ran an ad for their line of guitars from 1938? I'd say it's probably been awhile. It's resale value was not determined by an ad campaign but rather by word-of-mouth as time went by.

Ok, I speak as a former very highly paid expert on the subject of Marcoms. It's a subject that many people speak about passionately, but unfortunately have never studied. It's an academic subject like many others, it's not just an opinion. Advertising and PR both form part of the marcoms mix. Their 'voice' does not only speak for new items. PR and focused advertising can be very influential regarding many aspects of a company's public identity. Perceived value and hence real, saleable value has a lot to do with, well, perceptions. And make no mistake, PR and advertising affect people's perceptions! That's why companies - as I mentioned previously - such as Coca-cola spend millions on trying to influence people. Yairi may be brilliant, excellent guitars. That is not the question; the question is, who knows about them? or even heard of them? Cos if that number is few (comparatively), then also the number of potential buyers will also be similarly few. That targeted PR and advertising raises the profile (and saleable value) of products is not a debatable issue. It's a fact. Anyone on this forum could (given the capability) build the best guitar in the world tomorrow. But what's it worth? Well, if you just advertise it on Ebay and say that in your opinion it's the best guitar in the world you'll get $100, maybe. Do a PR job and contact and negotiate with the top acoustic guitar mag to do a review, and that review subsequently shows it to be an extraordinary, stunningly, amazingly sounding guitar, and the next day the enquiries will flood in. Promote, or don't promote. The product remains exactly the same, but the world's perception - and hence value - changes accordingly.

[newton]

Originally Posted by steveyam

Ok, I speak as a former very highly paid expert on the subject of Marcoms. It's a subject that many people speak about passionately, but unfortunately have never studied. It's an academic subject like many others, it's not just an opinion. Advertising and PR both form part of the marcoms mix. Their 'voice' does not only speak for new items. PR and focused advertising can be very influential regarding many aspects of a company's public identity. Perceived value and hence real, saleable value has a lot to do with, well, perceptions. And make no mistake, PR and advertising affect people's perceptions! That's why companies - as I mentioned previously - such as Coca-cola spend millions on trying to influence people. Yairi may be brilliant, excellent guitars. That is not the question; the question is, who knows about them? or even heard of them? Cos if that number is few (comparatively), then also the number of potential buyers will also be similarly few. That targeted PR and advertising raises the profile (and saleable value) of products is not a debatable issue. It's a fact. Anyone on this forum could (given the capability) build the best guitar in the world tomorrow. But what's it worth? Well, if you just advertise it on Ebay and say that in your opinion it's the best guitar in the world you'll get $100, maybe. Do a PR job and contact and negotiate with the top acoustic guitar mag to do a review, and that review subsequently shows it to be an extraordinary, stunningly, amazingly sounding guitar, and the next day the enquiries will flood in. Promote, or don't promote. The product remains exactly the same, but the world's perception - and hence value - changes accordingly.

Hi:

I used to work in an Engineering Validation Test lab for a computer manufacturer. I understand statistics, test methodology, regression analysis and the concept of manipulating one variable while holding all others constant. I am also very familiar with the concept of corporate branding. I understand everything you just said. Believe me when I tell you, I totally understand where you are coming from. However, what it takes to advertise a product and what it takes to sell one are two completely different things.

You make a very good point about product reviews though. That is where it all comes together. It brings all of the engineering and marketing decisions together in the form of a tangible product and puts it all under a microscope. If the review is favorable, in this case it would be in something like Acoustic Guitar Magazine, then word-of-mouth advertising is really something very powerful that money can't buy. That sword cuts both ways, obviously. But not all products across all industries can be treated the same. The thread is about resale value. A can of Coca-Cola can seldom be seen to have resale value. It is a consumable.

So it's not that I don't understand where you're coming from. My basic premise is that Yairi's hold their value as well any other brand. Were it actually true that Yairi's are undervalued more than other brands of guitar manufacturers are undervalued, given the current economic situation, it would still be a false dichotomy to say that the only reason is the lack of Advertising. A few simple google searches and, the endless pool of data known as ebay, not to mention the threads here at AGF, show that Yairi has a loyal following and that it is on peoples radar.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20111126cc.html

Yairi is obviously highly respected.

As I said, I understand exactly what you are saying but, what I see is that the study of cause and effect in the market place has to embrace human behavior the same way that Elliot Wave theory was embraced by Wall St. back in the '80's. If, in this economy, people are selling their possessions to pay their bills, they will sell their possessions for less than they are worth. This tends to scew the results a bit. So, I am a firm believer in human behavior and, ebay is actually a pretty good place to study it.

Ultimately, if the perception that Yairi is not holding it's value is false, all attempts to explain why this is so are immaterial.

...i guess that's all i was really trying to say...

[state-it]

There are different Yairi brands.
S.Yairi
K.Yairi
Pre- K&S Yairi split
Alvarez Yairi old style
Alvarez Yairi post takeover

All spread over 50 + years

[old iron rider]

Could you explain the Alverez old and the new? What did they change? And why? As another poster said, many people have never heard of Yairi guitars. Or Alverez for that matter.

[pallec]

From Wikipedia:

Yairi is the name of three Japanese luthiers, who build handmade acoustic guitars.

In the 1960s and 70s Sadao Yairi, made guitars under the S. Yairi name. H. (Hiroshi) Yairi is Sadao Yairi's son, and made acoustic guitars under his supervision (and usually signed and/or stamped by S. Yairi). Sadao was Kazuo's uncle, and the brother of Giichi Yairi (Kazuo's father).

S. and H. Yairi are marketed under a few names in the US: Yairi & Sons, Kohno, Shelly, and Wilson are some of the names.

Yairi is now the name of the top line of Alvarez guitars. Alvarez Yairi guitars are handmade in the same factory as K. (Kazuo) Yairi guitars and are only sold under the Alvarez name in the United States.

*************************

I have owned a lot of different high-end acoustic guitars, but when i got hold of my K.Yairi, I stopped buying more acoustics.

It is simply the best acoustic I have ever played/heard (and it was cheap:-))!

On the French K.Yairi homepage, there is a lot of information and pictures from the factory (both in French and English). The homepage is a mess, but has a lot of info on the K.Yairi's.

http://www.yairi-france.com/

[ship of fools]

But I think most tend to over analyze why something doesn't hold its value. Like many Japanese guitar makers they know how to put out a good product and sometimes even a great guitar.
But like all things it comes down to what the consumer wants at the end of the day and mostly because everyone sings the praises of guitars like Martin Taylor and so forth ( and yest they are from good to great guitars also ). But because everyone is searching for that holy grail Martin. Well demand becomes bigger then supplies.
If say for argument sake we look at say a 1938 Dxx Martin and todays market was selling them for $35,000.00 and then someone came forward and found a warehouse full of them. That price woiuld significantly drop the world price of those old guitars
But I tend to buy with what my ears hear and I don't worry about what is holding its own or not holding value.
I have made money on guitars such as a old Framus that I bought for $200.00 and then sold 6 years later for $450.00 go figure and then I recently sold off a US custom shop US made Washburn hand made that I paid a tidy sum for ( US to Canadian currency was at an all time high, almost 32 cents on the dollar ) that I ended up selling for less then $325.00 I paid over $1600.00.
So thats the way guitars go one goes up another goes down and then it just depends on who is looking to buy at the right time and if you have two or three well there you go a bidding war.ship

[bohemian]

"S. and K. Yairi split".. I believe that is a mischaracterization of their relationship.

I have owned several S. Yailr guitars from the 1961-1971 period. Some were quite good.

I have never been attracted to a K Yairi or an Alvarez. Just another "also ran" guitar. Nothing of distinction.

I believe the resale reflects that.

[Guildman]

Originally Posted by Legolas1971

I've noticed that Yairi's just don't hold there value
on the used market. Even the Masterworks line that
is all solid and high end. I personally love they way
the DYM95Sb looks and sounds. What gives?

I know this is an old thread. This reminds me of Carvin guitars. Same sort of thing. It's amazing the quality guitar they make and due to lack of marketing you can pick one up that rivals PRS. I personally buy to play and keep so this sort of thing suits me fine.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Legolas1971

I've noticed that Yairi's just don't hold there value
on the used market. Even the Masterworks line that
is all solid and high end. I personally love they way
the DYM95Sb looks and sounds. What gives?

Because it is not a Martin.

Being the oldest (North American) manufacture of steel string guitars in it self creates a legacy that adds value to each guitar. Not saying it is logical, but it is a reality.

The few older Yairi's I have played have been fantastic.

[SFCRetired]

Back in the day a lot of Nashville stars played Yairi. Porter Waggoner did, as did his acoustic guitar player.

At least I guess that's what they were, they actually said Alvarez but I figured they were yairi's.

But I don't think they are cheap by any means. At least not the ones I have seen for sale.

[henryp]

Originally Posted by newton

Famous Musicians who have played (and endorsed) Alvarez Yairi Guitars:

Here's one more: