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Old 07-22-2020, 11:19 AM
jpmist jpmist is offline
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There are some things about GB that drive me insane so I just wanted to run some questions by anyone who's proficient at it. Problem is that I don't know what anything is called so I'd be sharing a lot of screen shots.

Mainly the region bar (?) near the top of the window where you can name a section of a recording and cut sections out of a track so you can move them around. As you hover the cursor over it, there are about 4 icons with different functions that appear depending on what phase of the moon we're in and if you've shaved recently <grin> - just need some help on managing that part. I've been hoping there was a secret key to press when the cursor is in that area that I don't know about.

Secondly, the main trouble I have mixing is getting my guitar and vocal tracks balanced to my liking. I usually fail to notice until I've exported the track to a mp3 file to discover a vocal is way too loud and I can't hear my harmory vocal. Are there any plug-ins I can install that show a decent meter so I can compare the tracks? The 3/8" one GB shows for each channel is fairly useless.

TIA
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:11 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post

Secondly, the main trouble I have mixing is getting my guitar and vocal tracks balanced to my liking. I usually fail to notice until I've exported the track to a mp3 file to discover a vocal is way too loud and I can't hear my harmory vocal. Are there any plug-ins I can install that show a decent meter so I can compare the tracks? The 3/8" one GB shows for each channel is fairly useless.

TIA
Speaking generally, and not as any kind of recording expert (though I record fairly often) I don't think most experts (or effective amateurs) balance and mix tracks with meters. There are meter settings, and newer meter modes, available as features on some products or plugins that you can install that attempt to measure loudness as we experience it (LUFS) but I use them more when doing the final "Mastering" stage after all the tracks are mixed already down to a stereo mix. Before that, when recording or mixing, I use meters mostly to make sure I'm not overloading any part of the recording chain.

Balancing the volumes of multiple tracks is an art that you use your ears for, and you may not get it right the first time, particularly when learning, but then the nice thing about mutltracks and DAW software like GB is that you just try again and get better with your tries as you do it more often.

It's also possible that different playback systems playing the same mix will show different problems or balances. Pros use a variety of playback systems to verify their mixes and learn to use their primary monitors to get it right more often on more systems by "learning" them. Again, a simple meter won't help with these kinds of problems.

Better recordists/mixers learn that it's not just a single setting of volume to mix tracks for best results. Where you place things in the stereo field (panning), EQ settings (two instruments can use too much the same frequency spectrum and end up masking each other), and controlling volume changes (with better mic technique, post recording volume automation curves* where you duck the loudest peaks and raise the too soft ones manually, or with compression) are part of the recipe.

For example, a too quiet harmony vocal may not be too quiet when you pan it away from the main vocal. Or it could have too much unneeded variation in volume so that you miss the quietest parts, even though when you first mixed it, it seemed "right" in general. So compression or even volume changes down to the phrase or even word level can help things at the mixing stage, or learning how to work with your voice, style of singing, and mic to reduce those variations at the time of recording.

Better, more knowledgeable people may correct or improve this answer from me, but I thought there might be some value in that I distinctly remember the problems I had to overcome when starting out, and from someone who still records with less than optimum equipment, skills, and facilities.

* Different software implements this volume automation feature differently, but usually there's some way to draw volume curves so that duck loud peaks and raise too soft parts on top of a recorded waveform. Though your ears are still the final arbitrator here, the visual aid of the waveform amplitude is useful as one draws these.
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Last edited by FrankHudson; 07-23-2020 at 10:15 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:13 PM
mtdmind mtdmind is offline
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I use GB only for its guitar effects as I don't have any pedals. I don't do any mixing.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:22 AM
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keith.rogers keith.rogers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post
There are some things about GB that drive me insane so I just wanted to run some questions by anyone who's proficient at it. Problem is that I don't know what anything is called so I'd be sharing a lot of screen shots.

Mainly the region bar (?) near the top of the window where you can name a section of a recording and cut sections out of a track so you can move them around. As you hover the cursor over it, there are about 4 icons with different functions that appear depending on what phase of the moon we're in and if you've shaved recently <grin> - just need some help on managing that part. I've been hoping there was a secret key to press when the cursor is in that area that I don't know about.

Secondly, the main trouble I have mixing is getting my guitar and vocal tracks balanced to my liking. I usually fail to notice until I've exported the track to a mp3 file to discover a vocal is way too loud and I can't hear my harmory vocal. Are there any plug-ins I can install that show a decent meter so I can compare the tracks? The 3/8" one GB shows for each channel is fairly useless.

TIA
I don't use GB these days (Logic Pro X user) and it has changed enough that it would be helpful if you could include screenshots to highlight the areas of the screen you're asking about, and maybe describe the icons/cursors and what part you are hovering over, or if you have any keys pressed.

They layout is very much derived from Logic Pro X, and while some features are there, many are either not accessible or automated/dumbed-down with less control. Spending a couple hundred on Logic is a worthwhile upgrade if you are pretty happy with GarageBand. Otherwise something like Reaper is a bit more affordable way to get a full-featured DAW with all the meters and such.

One problem with GarageBand is that you cannot view multiple plugins at the same time (at least that's what I saw when I just tried it), and if you are trying to look at metering on multiple tracks, it will frustrate you.

But, as mentioned, metering is typically not how you adjust a mix. Now, I do make quick "clip gain" adjustments if I see I'm going to have to make a big move across a track or sizeable region, so that my fader movements (or automation) are minimized. This is another area where GB is lacking, and you have to use the Gain plugin, at least as far as I can see, if you have track balance issues that are pushing your faders is widely opposite directions.

You also might want to check out how to automate volume on a track, as mentioned, because sometimes it's just part of a track that need to get louder. GarageBand does support volume automation.

And, then, listening back to the final result on different devices is really part of the process. If you are trying to mix entirely on headphones, it's very easy for your brain to isolate something in one ear and make you think it's loud enough. Always mix on speakers if possible, or test your mix by playing back over just a phone speaker, in the car, etc.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:08 PM
jpmist jpmist is offline
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Thanks, guys. I'm putting together some screen shots tomorrow with specifics, but to start, yeah, I'm aware that setting relative balance is just something you learn. I've been home recording for decades, just simple 4 tracks of acoustics and vocals, but I lack patience and just wish I could get a default setup with GB and my USB box so I can just sit down and do some quick tracks without endless post production. I'm probably not alone there.

The headphones I use might be part of the problem, I dunno, they're open air. Maybe it's too easy to ignore how off balance a too loud vocal is with those. I do know that when I record I sort of need the vocal to be loud as I'm playing the guitar track at the same time and I need to hear what I'm singing over it to ensure that I'm in key. I've tried just doing separate vocal and guitar tracks as one is supposed to do, but I've found it tricky to stay in precise rhythm overdubbing a lead vocal over a main guitar track.

Anyway, more tomorrow.
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Old 07-23-2020, 06:54 PM
slide496 slide496 is offline
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I record into garageband on my mac via an "aggregate" mic which is 2USB mics so each shows up on a separate track - I can see how loud each track is and can raise lower the volume on each. I don't use analog mics but you may be able to do similarly with mics connected to a mixer and then into garageband.
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Old 07-26-2020, 07:17 PM
jpmist jpmist is offline
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So just to update, the problem I was having with the region cursor was my own fault by having the scale of the window such that the regions were too narrow. If I widened them by decreasing the scale, showing say 30 minutes worth of track instead of two hours, it made the cursor easier to use.

The second problem I'm going to approach with a VU meter plug-in that I think will help me discriminate between too loud and just loud enough a lot better than with my own ears. At least for a rough draft which is often as far as I go. I've put it in the Master Track plug-in section so I can see better if the overdubbed guitar and harmony are balanced with the initial tracks. At least it will get me in the ballpark.

The last part I need to figure out is that there's a mix knob on my USB box that determines how much of the monitored signal goes to Garageband. This confuses me as at times I hear it fine, at times I don't, and I'm unclear if the level I'm hearing is the level being recorded. All the way right is the mixed track, all the way left is the dry input - I often leave it dead center. My poor brain can't quite grasp how that works, but I'll just have to figure it out trial and error.

Thanks again for the replies.

https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/vu-meter
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