How to improve the quality of my recordings...

[mikerofone]

For those of you who are pros or semi-pros when it comes to recording, I'm looking for some basic tips as to how I can improve the overall quality of my recordings, which means acoustic guitar (Martin dreads) and sometimes mandolin. My recordings are exclusively just me recording bluegrass-ish or acoustic jazz instrumentals or me adding an acoustic guitar track to guitar/vocal recordings my buddy sends me.

I currently use Logic X for my workstation, an Apogee Duet for my interface, and I have Neuman KM184 and AKG C214 mics. I am NOT well versed in the deeper uses and nuances of using Logic. I can record tracks, mix, pan and use automation. The only fx I ever use is a bit of reverb. I was never happy with the stock reverb effects on Logic and use a 3rd party plug-in called Acon reverb. I use to love the Steinberg reverb that came with Cubase when that was my workstation and have never found anything I like as much. I am very inexperienced in using/applying EQ especially.

I am open to gear ideas and also capabilities within Logic that can help but one thing I can't do is dedicate a room in my house specifically to recording and build it out accordingly. I have a standard bedroom sized room that doubles as my office and music room. It has a hardwood floor that is 65%-70% covered with a throw rug.

The things that I most dislike with my recordings is they have, for lack of a better description, a digital "harshness" to them (digital brittle I call it) rather than a nice warm sound. Also, alternating bass lines or other lower string runs (such as typical G runs) I play on my two Martin dreads (HD28V and Gruhn Sinker Hog D18) tend to come out muddy and don't pop very well in the mixes. I try to pick those runs closer to the bridge but still often lack the definition I seek.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by mikerofone

For those of you who are pros or semi-pros when it comes to recording, I'm looking for some basic tips as to how I can improve the overall quality of my recordings, which means acoustic guitar (Martin dreads) and sometimes mandolin. My recordings are exclusively just me recording bluegrass-ish or acoustic jazz instrumentals or me adding an acoustic guitar track to guitar/vocal recordings my buddy sends me.

I currently use Logic X for my workstation, an Apogee Duet for my interface, and I have Neuman KM184 and AKG C214 mics. I am NOT well versed in the deeper uses and nuances of using Logic. I can record tracks, mix, pan and use automation. The only fx I ever use is a bit of reverb. I was never happy with the stock reverb effects on Logic and use a 3rd party plug-in called Acon reverb. I use to love the Steinberg reverb that came with Cubase when that was my workstation and have never found anything I like as much. I am very inexperienced in using/applying EQ especially.

I am open to gear ideas and also capabilities within Logic that can help but one thing I can't do is dedicate a room in my house specifically to recording and build it out accordingly. I have a standard bedroom sized room that doubles as my office and music room. It has a hardwood floor that is 65%-70% covered with a throw rug.

The things that I most dislike with my recordings is they have, for lack of a better description, a digital "harshness" to them (digital brittle I call it) rather than a nice warm sound. Also, alternating bass lines or other lower string runs (such as typical G runs) I play on my two Martin dreads (HD28V and Gruhn Sinker Hog D18) tend to come out muddy and don't pop very well in the mixes. I try to pick those runs closer to the bridge but still often lack the definition I seek.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Doug Young has occasionally referred to a conversation with a pro engineer who assigned something like 90% of the quality of a recording to the performer, 4% to the instrument, 2% to the room, 1% to the engineer, and the remaining 3% divided among all the equipment issues - I'm probably off on the exact numbers but hopefully you get the picture.

However, on the specific question of "digital harshness" I would first look at recording levels. It's very common that when we begin recording we find our tracks to be very quiet compared to commercially produced stuff or even other amateur recordings by more experienced folks. So we crank up the gain when we record in an attempt to reach similar levels. The result is both overdriving the analog portion of the recording chain and clipping of the digital portion and the common result is a harsh sound.

What we're missing is the fact that our reference recordings were almost certainly tracked at modest levels, mixed to increase perceived loudness, then mastered to reach their full potential while never tipping over into distortion.

The solution is to back off on tracking levels, aim for average (RMS) levels well under -10 dBFS (dB Full Scale). Then carefully adjust levels in post, perhaps apply a bit of limiting, a bit of EQ, tweaking levels until we begin to match our reference recordings. But it's unrealistic to hope we can match the levels achieved by professional mastering engineers, so don't try. Allow the listener to provide the final level boost with their playback volume control.

Fran

[MikeBmusic]

One thing you can do is look at how you are postioniung yoru mic(s) when tracking. Experiment! Different instruments benefit formdifferent positions.

The second thing you cna do is take the room out of the equation. Small rooms just don't have good acoustics. Build or buy some rockwool or compressed fiberglass gobo panels that you can set up when you are recording to block the room reflections from being picked up by the mic.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Doug Young has occasionally referred to a conversation with a pro engineer who assigned something like 90% of the quality of a recording to the performer, 4% to the instrument, 2% to the room, 1% to the engineer, and the remaining 3% divided among all the equipment issues ...
Fran

That's very convenient for the engineer to claim - mostly putting how well the quality of a recording's sound comes out on the performer's shoulders. Most everything else really.

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

One thing you can do is look at how you are postioniung yoru mic(s) when tracking. Experiment! Different instruments benefit formdifferent positions.

The second thing you cna do is take the room out of the equation. Small rooms just don't have good acoustics...

Agreed, mic positioning and room treatment!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

That's very convenient for the engineer to claim - mostly putting how well the quality of a recording's sound comes out on the performer's shoulders. Most everything else really.

Convenient, but true :-) The guy in question is a pretty world-class engineer with a fantastic studio and top-notch gear. His advice was mostly in relation to me doing my own recordings, telling to worry more about getting a good sound out of my instrument and less about whether A/D convert X was 1% better than converter Y. He also emphasized the value of room acoustics - which was also "convenient", given the incredible acoustic room he has.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by mikerofone

The things that I most dislike with my recordings is they have, for lack of a better description, a digital "harshness" to them (digital brittle I call it) rather than a nice warm sound.

I think it would help if we heard your recordings. I never know what people mean by "digital harshness". Digital got a justifiably bad rap in the 80s, but that was 40 years ago. Unless you are listening to a record player, all music you hear is digital now. There should be nothing about being recorded digitally these days that inherently sounds bad.

My suspicion (with no evidence, since we don't hear your recordings) is that the harshness could be coming from your untreated room. Short reflections in a typical bedroom often create harshness.

[anton]

You certainly have good gear. I second posting some recordings and we can give you better advice. Maybe also a picture or description of the mic placement.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Convenient, but true :-) The guy in question is a pretty world-class engineer with a fantastic studio and top-notch gear. His advice was mostly in relation to me doing my own recordings, telling to worry more about getting a good sound out of my instrument and less about whether A/D convert X was 1% better than convert Y.

At recording time the engineer's job is capture the sound the artist is producing at a certain point in space as accurately as possible with gear and gear setup. Of course for a studio recording making that space a good one with room acoustics is also part of it.

The player may like the sound he gets live from a certain instrument and playing style (perhaps playing with a certain amount of twang and buzz rather with a cleaner approach is desired). If the player is not getting the sound he wants then other things could be discussed.

I know from my own recording experience that with the same instrument and me playing the same way some recording setups have given a really good sound (at least what I like) and other recording setups quite far from that.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

At recording time the engineer's job is capture the sound the artist is producing at a certain point in space as accurately as possible with gear and gear setup. Of course for a studio recording making that space a good one with room acoustics is also part of it.

The player may like the sound he gets live from a certain instrument and and playing style (perhaps playing with a certain amount of twang and buzz rather with a cleaner approach is desired). If the player is not getting the sound he wants then other things could be discussed.

Of course. This person's opinions didn't prevent him from swapping out different preamps multiple times and trying different mics and different mic placements while recording me (and others that I've been present for). He was just trying to give his perspective on the relative importance of various control points. Given that he clearly believes in (and spends significant money on) top notch gear, and an acoustic environment that I could never duplicate in a home studio, it's not that he doesn't believe in gear, or in engineering techniques. He was just trying to put it all in context. I find it interesting and helpful to think about when I start feeling like I need new gear.

BTW Fran's breakdown is a bit off. Here's what I actually recalled him saying at the time, as I wrote in a post in 2012 after the conversation. Top 10 list of what matters:

1,2,3: the player
4,5,6: the instrument
7: room acoustics
8: the recording engineer
9: mics
Distant 10th place: all other gear, preamps, a/d's, recorder, etc

I'd quibble a little, maybe, about the exact order and importance, his point was just that stuff like A/D converters are only a small part of the puzzle.

A little off topic of the OP's question, but maybe relevant as in "it's probably not digital that's the problem"

[keith.rogers]

OP, you might not be able to dedicate a room, but you really must work to optimize it for recording through choice of drapes, bed coverings, wall hangings, rugs, whatever; and also get quasi-religious (IMO) about keeping things set up for the best use of the room so your mic positions, once figured out, take advantage of the room, and you can recreate this easily and quickly.

"Digital harshness" doesn't exist if you do the recording correctly, especially with that equipment (again IMO). Hearing your raw tracks (via dropbox or such) and a drawing or something of how you set up, will help others help you.

Logic is probably at the bottom of things to fret over. (Personally, I think Logic's Space Designer is one of the nicest IR-based reverbs I've heard.)

[mikerofone]

I think it would help if we heard your recordings. I never know what people mean by "digital harshness".

You can hear my recordings here:
https://www.reverbnation.com/michaelsmith88/songs

Red Haired Boy, Angeline The Baker, Tennessee Waltz, Milestones, Summer Time are all me.

Look At Miss Ohio, Oh Babe It Ain't No Lie, Blues Run The Game, Living With The Law I added my guitar track to a guitar/vocal track a friend sent. I am the guitar panned right.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by mikerofone

I think it would help if we heard your recordings. I never know what people mean by "digital harshness".

You can hear my recordings here:
https://www.reverbnation.com/michaelsmith88/songs

Red Haired Boy, Angeline The Baker, Tennessee Waltz, Milestones, Summer Time are all me.

Look At Miss Ohio, Oh Babe It Ain't No Lie, Blues Run The Game, Living With The Law I added my guitar track to a guitar/vocal track a friend sent. I am the guitar panned right.

Only started to listen. Nice picking. You don't use EQ or compression at all?

How close are you micing and what level are you recording at?

The warmth can be a matter of EQ, i.e., doing cuts/boosts it in the right places to give everything its own space and let keep the harsher parts from building up, as well as giving space to the lows on those instruments that you want to provide it.

Bus compression can help "glue" your stuff together.

"Cup of Three" needs EQ and compression on the bass (IMO). Whose song is that?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by mikerofone

For those of you who are pros or semi-pros when it comes to recording, I'm looking for some basic tips as to how I can improve the overall quality of my recordings, which means acoustic guitar (Martin dreads) and sometimes mandolin. My recordings are exclusively just me recording bluegrass-ish or acoustic jazz instrumentals or me adding an acoustic guitar track to guitar/vocal recordings my buddy sends me.

I currently use Logic X for my workstation, an Apogee Duet for my interface, and I have Neuman KM184 and AKG C214 mics. I am NOT well versed in the deeper uses and nuances of using Logic. I can record tracks, mix, pan and use automation. The only fx I ever use is a bit of reverb. I was never happy with the stock reverb effects on Logic and use a 3rd party plug-in called Acon reverb. I use to love the Steinberg reverb that came with Cubase when that was my workstation and have never found anything I like as much. I am very inexperienced in using/applying EQ especially.


I am open to gear ideas and also capabilities within Logic that can help but one thing I can't do is dedicate a room in my house specifically to recording and build it out accordingly. I have a standard bedroom sized room that doubles as my office and music room. It has a hardwood floor that is 65%-70% covered with a throw rug.

The things that I most dislike with my recordings is they have, for lack of a better description, a digital "harshness" to them (digital brittle I call it) rather than a nice warm sound. Also, alternating bass lines or other lower string runs (such as typical G runs) I play on my two Martin dreads (HD28V and Gruhn Sinker Hog D18) tend to come out muddy and don't pop very well in the mixes. I try to pick those runs closer to the bridge but still often lack the definition I seek.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Nice playing and your recordings overall are quite good
They are quite detailed and present in the high frequencies, almost to point of having a bit of an edge, but I would not call them harsh per se. There are however some mixing tricks you can try.

Also definitely as suggested look into some movable (gobo type) broadband absorption panels. Which you can set up for recording/mixing and then take down it you cannot leave them in place.

One note
(Knowing it's probably not what you want to hear), but both the 184 and C214 do have a bit of reputation for being hyped in high end which could be contributing .
But if getting different mics is not an option.

Then the first thing I would think about is doing some surgical subtractive EQ'in in the high frequency range. Use a very narrow Q, boost then sweep and find the place in the upper frequency that sounds like it is "ringing" and make a 4 to 6 db cut there. (Logic no doubt has a multi band EQ that is sweepable and with adjustable (Q)

You can set up an EQ and compressor in parallel and use the low pass filter to cut out from the midrange up (and also from 100 hz down with a high pass filter) the set the comp to a say 4 to 1 or 6 to 1 ratio to get more punch out of your bass lines

Also set up your reverb on a parallel Bus or Aux track and send your guitar to that track via a send bus . Put that same EQ Before your reverb, which should have both a high and low pass filters with octave cut adjustment. Set the lowpass down to cut off everything above say 6kHz and the high pass to cut off ever below 600 hz

[mikerofone]

I'm definitely open to different mics. Suggestions?