Is Reaper a non-destructive DAW? Also - 32 or 64 bit general question

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by TBman

Audition is non destructive. I just want something cheaper.

Hard to get cheaper or more CPU efficient than Reaper, other than Bandlab which is free, but I believe is cloud based session storage (which I personally don't care for)

[runamuck]

If I were starting again, out of all the DAWS available, I'd get Reaper. Actually, I have Reaper but don't use it much because I've been using Cubase for so long that it comes naturally to me - and I'm old.

Not only is Reaper THE most efficient DAW made, but you can customize it to your hearts content if you are so inclined.

[TBman]

Ok, I downloaded the 64 bit and I'm playing around with it. I adjusted the visual size of the wav file, added spectral and I used the Fx window to add effects. I see how to re-order and turn on and off the effects. I'll see if I can learn to do everything in Reaper and not work with Rx and Reaper.

[FrankHudson]

I have a lot of respect for Reaper's business model and have looked at it briefly. As a long time Audition user, I wouldn't stop someone from looking at Reaper as an alternative.

What you could loose, miss, or need to replace: Audition has a lot of supplied effects. I don't have enough experience to compare them in number and quality to what comes with Reaper, but even if there's a similar effect, it won't work exactly the same way or sound the same. And of course long time users have an "investment" in learned workflows.

As to the mix up in the thread about non-destructive/destructive: Audition, going back it's days as Cool Edit Pro had two modes: a multi-track non-destructive mode similar to most modern DAWs and a single track (stereo accepted) editor like traditional audio editors that could render things permanently ("destructive"). One advantage of the second mode was that one could do complex modifications of audio files that took a lot of processing power on old-time 20th century computers without glitches, because you applied ("printed" would be another term) them and they didn't have to work in "real time" as you streamed the audio along. Modern DAWs get around such limitations (which are higher on faster, modern computers anyway) by having freeze track functions and the like.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by TBman

Ok, I downloaded the 64 bit and I'm playing around with it. I adjusted the visual size of the wav file, added spectral and I used the Fx window to add effects. I see how to re-order and turn on and off the effects. I'll see if I can learn to do everything in Reaper and not work with Rx and Reaper.

Many of the Rx features can be used as a plug-in (effect) right in Reaper. No need to render, go to the standalone version, and then re-import. Reaper also has some built-in plugins that may easily do what you want. For example, quick noise reduction of constant background noise is very easy with the ReaFir plugin. Reaper's built-in spectral editing is great for manually removing bad string squeaks. Another "I learned this in the days of tape" fix for a momentary click or clank is just to zoom way in on the waveform and just "snip out" those few offending milliseconds and push the pieces back together; if it's short enough you won't even notice.

I'm a bit curious about why you're using Rx so much. It's designed to clean up "damaged" or imperfect audio. I use NR, de-ess, de-plosive and pop removers occasionally, but they are "spot removers". If you find yourself using Rx constantly, maybe you can fix some things in your environment, recording setup, or playing technique so you don't have to fix as much after the fact. Or just re-record a section with problems. E.g., if I had a really bad string squeak, it can be easier and better sounding to just punch in and re-record that phrase than to try to repair it later.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Many of the Rx features can be used as a plug-in (effect) right in Reaper. No need to render, go to the standalone version, and then re-import. Reaper also has some built-in plugins that may easily do what you want. For example, quick noise reduction of constant background noise is very easy with the ReaFir plugin. Reaper's built-in spectral editing is great for manually removing bad string squeaks. Another "I learned this in the days of tape" fix for a momentary click or clank is just to zoom way in on the waveform and just "snip out" those few offending milliseconds and push the pieces back together; if it's short enough you won't even notice.

I'm a bit curious about why you're using Rx so much. It's designed to clean up "damaged" or imperfect audio. I use NR, de-ess, de-plosive and pop removers occasionally, but they are "spot removers". If you find yourself using Rx constantly, maybe you can fix some things in your environment, recording setup, or playing technique so you don't have to fix as much after the fact. Or just re-record a section with problems. E.g., if I had a really bad string squeak, it can be easier and better sounding to just punch in and re-record that phrase than to try to repair it later.

I often use Rx as a DAW. I'll clean it up, use the effects and plugins and save different versions as I go along.

[terryj47]

Originally Posted by TBman

Ok, I downloaded the 64 bit and I'm playing around with it. I adjusted the visual size of the wav file, added spectral and I used the Fx window to add effects. I see how to re-order and turn on and off the effects. I'll see if I can learn to do everything in Reaper and not work with Rx and Reaper.

Lots of tutorials available to get you up to speed. And you can use it free for a while. It is a heck of a bargain. Good luck with it.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by TBman

Ok, I downloaded the 64 bit and I'm playing around with it. I adjusted the visual size of the wav file, added spectral and I used the Fx window to add effects. I see how to re-order and turn on and off the effects. I'll see if I can learn to do everything in Reaper and not work with Rx and Reaper.

Yes much more efficient to use one DAW and use RX as a repair peripheral within Reaper to repair audio while still in Reaper (which really is its specific intended use). See link below

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us...-Cockos-Reaper

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes much more efficient to use one DAW and use RX as a repair peripheral within Reaper to repair audio while still in Reaper (which really is its specific intended use). See link below

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us...-Cockos-Reaper

What that seems to describe is destructive editing.

I think using "editor" is a little confusing, because that often implies just that, i.e., editing (altering) an audio file. This is different from inserts/plugins that are non-destructive, at least in my mind (Logic Pro user POV).

I use the standalone RX for point fixes, like string squeaks, maybe occasional, noticeable sibilance or plosives, and then use that edited audio file in the project, though I save an RX project (at least until done with the mix), so I can undo those changes if needed and backtrack. (And sometimes, of course, I'll only open RX for the final mix.) The plugins are nice, but I know at least one or two that do not work if I automate turning them on/off, as I usually don't want something looking for plosives and "fixing" everything on an entire track that looks like one to RX, since it's going to guess wrong sometimes. Mouth-clicks on a pure vocal track, yeah, probably Ok, but some things I single point fixes, especially spectral-repair, which generally requires unique settings for specific, small regions.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

What that seems to describe is destructive editing.

I think using "editor" is a little confusing, because that often implies just that, i.e., editing (altering) an audio file. This is different from inserts/plugins that are non-destructive, at least in my mind (Logic Pro user POV).

I am not an Rx user, but I believe that any Rx tool you can use as an effect would be non-destructive (Reaper will run the processing "on the fly" and not affect the original audio item). If you decide to use Rx standalone, it is destructive in that you have to render the item/track, alter it in Rx, save and import the altered version. That would be true of using any external program. Of course, you can always keep the original item/track around and mute it.

If you are using standalone Rx as a "DAW", how do you then add other effects like EQ, compression or reverb? Seems like you'd always need to bring the files into another program for some of that.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I am not an Rx user, but I believe that any Rx tool you can use as an effect would be non-destructive (Reaper will run the processing "on the fly" and not affect the original audio item). If you decide to use Rx standalone, it is destructive in that you have to render the item/track, alter it in Rx, save and import the altered version. That would be true of using any external program. Of course, you can always keep the original item/track around and mute it.

If you are using standalone Rx as a "DAW", how do you then add other effects like EQ, compression or reverb? Seems like you'd always need to bring the files into another program for some of that.

Rx 7 uses plug-ins also. They are destructive though.

I found that the Rx noise removal tool can't be run at full strength in Reaper, so I'll have to do it prior to using Reaper. Not a big deal. Reaper has its own tool for that as well. I'll be busy

One of the things I found out recently is that my recording gain was too low. So I'm stepped that up and I brought the mics in and found I don't have to boost the levels as much in post. As a result I'm not magnifying the room as much as I did in the past.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hard to get cheaper or more CPU efficient than Reaper, other than Bandlab which is free, but I believe is cloud based session storage (which I personally don't care for)

As mentioned, Waveform 11 is free and no such storage limitations, or any other for my needs(solo guitar) - I must be missing something !

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by TBman

I found that the Rx noise removal tool can't be run at full strength in Reaper, so I'll have to do it prior to using Reaper. ... my recording gain was too low.

If you think you need to use noise reduction on everything you record, I would definitely start by looking at fixing your recording environment, rather than trying to do it after the fact every time. What in your room is making that much noise on a regular basis? Even problematic things like HVAC systems or refrigerators can be turned off temporarily. Your end result will be much better.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

If you think you need to use noise reduction on everything you record, I would definitely start by looking at fixing your recording environment, rather than trying to do it after the fact every time. What in your room is making that much noise on a regular basis? Even problematic things like HVAC systems or refrigerators can be turned off temporarily. Your end result will be much better.

What was happening is that I was playing softly and I had the gain low. So then I had to boost the gain post recording which magnified the room. I thought that was the way to beat a poor room, but using normal gain works out better. This time of year I'm going to have my son's a/c going in the room above so the noise reduction gets rid of that. During the cooler months it will be very quiet in my recording room.

I always keep a "raw" track that I can start over with if I run into trouble with Rx, but the undo feature usually takes care of it if I over do it. It's easy enough to use Rx first for noise, pops and other little repairs and then use that as the track to be loaded into Reaper.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

What that seems to describe is destructive editing.

I think using "editor" is a little confusing, because that often implies just that, i.e., editing (altering) an audio file. This is different from inserts/plugins that are non-destructive, at least in my mind (Logic Pro user POV).

I use the standalone RX for point fixes, like string squeaks, maybe occasional, noticeable sibilance or plosives, and then use that edited audio file in the project, though I save an RX project (at least until done with the mix), so I can undo those changes if needed and backtrack. (And sometimes, of course, I'll only open RX for the final mix.) The plugins are nice, but I know at least one or two that do not work if I automate turning them on/off, as I usually don't want something looking for plosives and "fixing" everything on an entire track that looks like one to RX, since it's going to guess wrong sometimes. Mouth-clicks on a pure vocal track, yeah, probably Ok, but some things I single point fixes, especially spectral-repair, which generally requires unique settings for specific, small regions.

While a number of Rx repair modules can be used stand alone or as a plugin. But for example "spectral repair" (what I use RX for ) is standalone only. And given I use Pro Tools as the DAW It uses RX "Connect" as opposed to selecting it as the primary outboard editor as described in the Reaper link and I believe is also the case for Logic Pro.

Yes I believe you are correct the link is talking about using Rx as destructively and overwriting the original . Since I use RX only for it's "Spectral Repair " for specific instances of sting buzz, squeaks, pops, etc.....However in PT I can simply hit the undo command in PT, and the rendered file sent from RX stand alone to PT reverts to the prior un rendered file (And I always save a copy of the RAW track in PT first before launching RX) as well as having the periodic auto save in PT running