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Old 06-23-2022, 09:44 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default My most consistent plugged in sound?

I've been toying with a few different things the past weeks with respect to plugged in sound. The LR Baggs VPDI has been the center of my tweaking since I found one for a reasonable price. My first experiment was with the LR Baggs Lyric and the VPDI. There is another thread for that. My experience, confirmed by Aaron Short, is that those two systems work very well together and are worth experimenting with, if you have access to them.

My second experiment has been a rather mundane one. Setting up the small pedal board with wireless unit, tuner, and the VPDI and training the guitars that I have to work with them. After my experiment with the Lyric, I decided that I would commit my 12 string to the K&K pickup, like I have in the others. So, essentially, I have just trained each K&K equipped guitar with the standard VPDI app on the iPhone and then done a little tweaking to taste. In each case, I have the image percentage between 50-75% and the feedback rejection around 25-40% depending on the guitar. On my Marquis I included the EQ bump for the highs. The others are flat.

The results are sort of remarkable. After so many years of different pickup solutions at different times, not to mention among individual instruments, it's a real pleasure to have something setup and ready to go.

I got close with the ToneDexter, but I was never as successful with that pedal because of the learning curve. The software in the VPDI app and the ability to save all the settings as a preset are a difference maker.

I got close with the K&K and the SunnAudio DI-2 (excellent DI) but it can't compare in terms of IR functionality and ease of use.

With this setup I have (arguably) the best plugged in sound I've had with ANY of my instruments and their various pickup attempts. They are all level set the same (very important) and I can switch between them with the click of a button. Should I want to tweak further, I can load the iPhone app. If I needed to play some place loud, I could use a sound hole plug.

I presume there will be times when even a mini pedal board will be more than needed for the occasion. In those cases I will still use the SunnAudio DI-2 which I keep in the guitar case.
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Last edited by martingitdave; 06-24-2022 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:56 AM
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nostatic nostatic is offline
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I have a K&K in my OM21, an OM28 MD with Fishman VT Aura factory installed. The OM21 sounds quite good, even without the SunnAudio DI-2 (though it does sound better with it). The OM28 MD is significantly better if you want a "mic'd acoustic" sound. I'm actually somewhat surprised at how good it is.

That said, I find that some situations aren't ideal for a "true acoustic" sound (eg in a denser mix). Horses for courses. Since my guitar gigs are solo these days, it (the Aura) does work for me. If I wanted to cut in a mix, I think the K&K might be a better choice, ymmv.
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:51 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Have you used it live yet? I can't tell you how many times I have found the perfect set up, only to find out it doesn't work live. I like this setup of yours though. I always talk myself out of the K&K due to glue and potential feedback issues, but it is a great pickup to use if you want to apply IR's to it.
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Old 06-23-2022, 06:09 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Have you used it live yet? I can't tell you how many times I have found the perfect set up, only to find out it doesn't work live. I like this setup of yours though. I always talk myself out of the K&K due to glue and potential feedback issues, but it is a great pickup to use if you want to apply IR's to it.

No I havenít had occasion to gig out with this setup. Most of that is my current circumstances. However, Iíve been through enough of these systems to have a good feel for what will work and what wonít. I will be playing out in July if all goes well.

In my rehearsal space I have a stick PA system that I can crank up fairly loudly. The feedback rejection in the VPDI really works. Itís analyzes the trouble and neutralizes it. The ability to dial in as much IR or as little as you like, along with parametric EQ for the K&K itself, is what sets this solution apart from the others Iíve tried.

I think this pedal is well thought out and I hope others will find some success with their setups.
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Old 06-23-2022, 06:19 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
No I havenít had occasion to gig out with this setup. Most of that is my current circumstances. However, Iíve been through enough of these systems to have a good feel for what will work and what wonít. I will be playing out in July if all goes well.

In my rehearsal space I have a stick PA system that I can crank up fairly loudly. The feedback rejection in the VPDI really works. Itís analyzes the trouble and neutralizes it. The ability to dial in as much IR or as little as you like, along with parametric EQ for the K&K itself, is what sets this solution apart from the others Iíve tried.

I think this pedal is well thought out and I hope others will find some success with their setups.
I will have to give that pedal a try. One of the big shortcomings of the Aura was that there was no option to eq just the image. I like how with the Voiceprint, you can get in and tweak just the IR. It definitely seems like a powerful tool. Do you find that the feedback rejection strips away any of the low end? My worry is that it would alter the tone too much.
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Old 06-23-2022, 06:29 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default My most consistently great plugged in sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I will have to give that pedal a try. One of the big shortcomings of the Aura was that there was no option to eq just the image. I like how with the Voiceprint, you can get in and tweak just the IR. It definitely seems like a powerful tool. Do you find that the feedback rejection strips away any of the low end? My worry is that it would alter the tone too much.

So far my experience is that the feedback control (algorithm?) which is controlled by a dial on the pedal or slider in the app is musical. Itís one of the reasons I genuinely like the product. Iím used to notch filters or EQ curves that knock everything down. In this case you dial ďupĒ as much feedback control as the room requires.

My understanding is that the training process lets the pedal know what to focus on. And Iím presuming the LR Baggs R&D group spent some time trying to make it effective and musical.

So much of my amplification experience has been about ďoutsmartingĒ whatís on the market. Trying to combine or tweak products and systems. In this case, Iím trying to commit myself to a single solution and try to get good at using it. Luckily, this new setup is simple enough and doesnít require a deep attention span.
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Old 06-23-2022, 06:58 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Thank you, it's very much appreciated! My goal is the same as you. After spending hundreds on pickups and preamps and experimenting, I have come to the conclusion that I just want something basic and simple that works and sounds good. I would rather get to know a pickup well than have to spend time tweaking when I get to a show. I am going to give the pedal a try.
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Old 06-24-2022, 12:37 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Have you used it live yet? I can't tell you how many times I have found the perfect set up, only to find out it doesn't work live.
I run house sound at an open mic venue -- maybe the most state-of-the-art open mic venue anywhere -- and I can attest that a lot of it depends on the room and the PA. And an equal amount depends on the ability of the performer to adapt on the spot -- to be able to deal with the idea that where you are now doesn't sound like it does at home, and you just have to adapt. That's where performing experience and discipline and hours of practice makes the difference.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:18 AM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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I have used MANY systems.

Had great results using IRs, but mostly for recordings. Cuki helped me A LOT to achieve a huuuuge sound for recordings with them. Later, I got myself a ToneDexter and I got myself similar results.

The fact is: I only got great results for recordings, with IRs. Live, I could never use them.

Now, I'm using a dual source system, with a great preamp for control, and I have never been happier. My great friend AlohaChris always told me that, and it is true.

If I could use IR on one signal of my dual source, with a low blend, just to fix some of the meds of my K&K, so I didn't had to use so much of the EQ on my Felix2, I would use it... like Doug does (I guess). But since I don't know how to do it, and I'm having great results with the dual source, I'm just keeping it simple!

Here's a sample of my plugged in sound with my dual source, in a livestream I did. It generally sounds the same or even better live. Just skip the beginning of the video, because it was chopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:24 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I run house sound at an open mic venue -- maybe the most state-of-the-art open mic venue anywhere -- and I can attest that a lot of it depends on the room and the PA. And an equal amount depends on the ability of the performer to adapt on the spot -- to be able to deal with the idea that where you are now doesn't sound like it does at home, and you just have to adapt. That's where performing experience and discipline and hours of practice makes the difference.
This is very good input. I can attest to dealing with all kids of different sound systems and results over the years. I'm one who thinks "tone is in the fingers" and you really need to be prepared to compensate and perform no matter what sound reinforcement you are provided.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:29 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I have used MANY systems.

Had great results using IRs, but mostly for recordings. Cuki helped me A LOT to achieve a huuuuge sound for recordings with them. Later, I got myself a ToneDexter and I got myself similar results.

The fact is: I only got great results for recordings, with IRs. Live, I could never use them.

Now, I'm using a dual source system, with a great preamp for control, and I have never been happier. My great friend AlohaChris always told me that, and it is true.

If I could use IR on one signal of my dual source, with a low blend, just to fix some of the meds of my K&K, so I didn't had to use so much of the EQ on my Felix2, I would use it... like Doug does (I guess). But since I don't know how to do it, and I'm having great results with the dual source, I'm just keeping it simple!

Here's a sample of my plugged in sound with my dual source, in a livestream I did. It generally sounds the same or even better live. Just skip the beginning of the video, because it was chopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s
Your sample is great!

My friend Cuki is the master of all things IR and I am glad you are getting to work with him. He also came to the conclusion that an analog dual source system with microphone was the best choice for his music. And, of course, LR Baggs themselves invested in the Anthem development for that reason.

For my use, I find that a modest blend of the IR, along with the very good tone shaping controls on the VPDI does the trick. I guess one could argue that it is a multi faceted process and not just an IR. I think IR alone has a tendency to sound too rich or too distant at times.
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Old 06-24-2022, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I have used MANY systems.

Had great results using IRs, but mostly for recordings. Cuki helped me A LOT to achieve a huuuuge sound for recordings with them. Later, I got myself a ToneDexter and I got myself similar results.

The fact is: I only got great results for recordings, with IRs. Live, I could never use them.

Now, I'm using a dual source system, with a great preamp for control, and I have never been happier. My great friend AlohaChris always told me that, and it is true....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s
That's a great live sound and may I say, wonderful performance!
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Old 06-24-2022, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I run house sound at an open mic venue -- maybe the most state-of-the-art open mic venue anywhere --
Interesting I am now curious as to what the gear in signal chain is ?? can you list quick flow chart (Or should we start another thread) "Equipment used at open mic's "
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Old 06-24-2022, 08:04 AM
JWJ915 JWJ915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I have used MANY systems.

Had great results using IRs, but mostly for recordings. Cuki helped me A LOT to achieve a huuuuge sound for recordings with them. Later, I got myself a ToneDexter and I got myself similar results.

The fact is: I only got great results for recordings, with IRs. Live, I could never use them.

Now, I'm using a dual source system, with a great preamp for control, and I have never been happier. My great friend AlohaChris always told me that, and it is true.

If I could use IR on one signal of my dual source, with a low blend, just to fix some of the meds of my K&K, so I didn't had to use so much of the EQ on my Felix2, I would use it... like Doug does (I guess). But since I don't know how to do it, and I'm having great results with the dual source, I'm just keeping it simple!

Here's a sample of my plugged in sound with my dual source, in a livestream I did. It generally sounds the same or even better live. Just skip the beginning of the video, because it was chopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s

Awesome sounding guitar! Whatís your dual source setup? Iíve been wanting to go down that rabbit hole.
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Old 06-24-2022, 08:38 AM
jricc jricc is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
No I haven’t had occasion to gig out with this setup. Most of that is my current circumstances. However, I’ve been through enough of these systems to have a good feel for what will work and what won’t. I will be playing out in July if all goes well.

In my rehearsal space I have a stick PA system that I can crank up fairly loudly. The feedback rejection in the VPDI really works. It’s analyzes the trouble and neutralizes it. The ability to dial in as much IR or as little as you like, along with parametric EQ for the K&K itself, is what sets this solution apart from the others I’ve tried.

I think this pedal is well thought out and I hope others will find some success with their setups.
Glad you found a great solution to your sound Dave! Wishing you good vibes and hope you get to check out your system in July.
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Last edited by jricc; 06-24-2022 at 10:42 AM.
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