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Old 06-14-2022, 10:04 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default 12v vs 48v phantom power

In the discussions of the EV Evolve 30M/50M, the discussion of the 15v of phantom power has come up as one of the drawbacks of this PA.

I went looking and found this:

https://youtu.be/qTarfzrCGvI

All the mics he tested seemed to work at both voltages, but the sound changed to varying degrees on the various mics.

The small diaphragm mics seemed to be very similar with both voltages, whereas the high frequencies especially seemed to take a hit on the larger diaphragm mics.

Personally, I donít see much value in the large diaphragm mics live, whereas being able to power the small diaphragm mics is useful.

I donít know why EV would have not just used 48v so that everything would just work. Maybe there were some other considerations that came into play. I know that for me, the 15v phantom power will work fine with Shure Beta87A mics that I own (but rarely use). If it was a recording console, I would feel differently and want the full 48v.
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Old 06-14-2022, 10:08 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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It would be interesting to see how the Trance M-VT Phantom system works with 15v. Does it work at all? If it does, does it take a hit in volume or quality, and is that hit significant in a live music context.
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Old 06-14-2022, 10:17 AM
Stringmaster Stringmaster is offline
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In tests on my 50M, the 15v is useless for my Ear Trumpet Labs LDC (which I wouldn't use with that system anyway), and it's marginal for my AKG C35 EB--there's a drop in output, sensitivity, and, dynamics that take it from my favorite vocal mic to mediocre--easier just to use a dynamic mic. I may pick up an external phantom power supply down the road to try it with, but overall I'm happy with the sound and simplicity of plugging in my dynamics.
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Old 06-14-2022, 10:42 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Originally Posted by Stringmaster View Post
In tests on my 50M, the 15v is useless for my Ear Trumpet Labs LDC (which I wouldn't use with that system anyway), and it's marginal for my AKG C35 EB--there's a drop in output, sensitivity, and, dynamics that take it from my favorite vocal mic to mediocre--easier just to use a dynamic mic. I may pick up an external phantom power supply down the road to try it with, but overall I'm happy with the sound and simplicity of plugging in my dynamics.

I donít think your Ear Trumpet Labs mic would work all that well with the 50M even with an external phantom power supply because of the speaker dispersion pattern.

There was a post recently by someone who found that an Ear Trumpet Labs mic was quite prone to feedback with a JBL subwoofer and line array system.

In that case, the phantom power was fine. It was just the physics of using a line array with the pickup pattern of that type of mic.

I can actually hear my voice and guitar well enough to sing and play when I am standing behind the EV column. It would be hard to do that with any point source speaker. For my style, this is good, but it isnít for everyone.

A point source speaker dispersion pattern works much better in the context of a bluegrass band all crowding a single mic.
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Old 06-14-2022, 11:17 AM
Stringmaster Stringmaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkingston View Post
I don’t think your Ear Trumpet Labs mic would work all that well with the 50M even with an external phantom power supply because of the speaker dispersion pattern.

There was a post recently by someone who found that an Ear Trumpet Labs mic was quite prone to feedback with a JBL subwoofer and line array system.

In that case, the phantom power was fine. It was just the physics of using a line array with the pickup pattern of that type of mic.

I can actually hear my voice and guitar well enough to sing and play when I am standing behind the EV column. It would be hard to do that with any point source speaker. For my style, this is good, but it isn’t for everyone.

A point source speaker dispersion pattern works much better in the context of a bluegrass band all crowding a single mic.
Agreed--
I played a larger outdoor venue the other day (see pics) and was glad I had my 50M--I took my S1 Pro to potentially use as a monitor, and quickly ditched it as I could hear myself great with the Evolve place a few feet to my left, and a couple of feet in front of me. This is the first time I've cranked the system up this loud, and feedback wasn't an issue.

The stage--very cool in that it's a converted cargo truck trailer, with a hydraulic lift for getting me and my gear on stage:


From the stage:


From the back fence of the venue (you can barely see the stage:


Part way back:
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Old 06-14-2022, 11:49 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Originally Posted by Stringmaster View Post
Agreed--
I played a larger outdoor venue the other day (see pics) and was glad I had my 50M--I took my S1 Pro to potentially use as a monitor, and quickly ditched it as I could hear myself great with the Evolve place a few feet to my left, and a couple of feet in front of me. This is the first time I've cranked the system up this loud, and feedback wasn't an issue.

The stage--very cool in that it's a converted cargo truck trailer, with a hydraulic lift for getting me and my gear on stage:


From the stage:


From the back fence of the venue (you can barely see the stage:


Part way back:

That is exactly the type of area where a 50M pulls ahead of a 30M.
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Old 06-14-2022, 12:09 PM
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RogerPease RogerPease is offline
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Crowd looks kinda small. (Joke)
Looks like a great venue!

Do people find that the acoustics change outdoors when the place gets full of people?
Other than the background noise, that is?
It happens big time indoors, of course.

_RP
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Old 06-14-2022, 12:26 PM
Stringmaster Stringmaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerPease View Post
Crowd looks kinda small. (Joke)
Looks like a great venue!

Do people find that the acoustics change outdoors when the place gets full of people?
Other than the background noise, that is?
It happens big time indoors, of course.

_RP
Lol, well that was 1/2 hour before I started, and then the crowd thinned out once I did start

Most of my gigs are outdoors, and I don't find that the acoustics change much if at all--it's mainly a balance of being loud enough to be heard (and getting coverage) to allow all of the patrons to hear me well, without blasting them out. One indoor venue I play has poor acoustics, and the crowd noise can sometimes get louder than the music as it bounces off of the walls--so I have to adjust my volume based on the crowd noise/size. One reason I like the array systems is that it's easier for me to control those parameters--I heard another performer in the noisy venue I mentioned with a single QSC K8.2, and the speaker was too "beamy" for the room when loud enough, and the owner mentioned to me that it was too loud. Not so with my Evolve at the same perceived volume.

Last edited by Stringmaster; 06-14-2022 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 06-14-2022, 02:42 PM
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Chriscom Chriscom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkingston View Post
I donít know why EV would have not just used 48v so that everything would just work. Maybe there were some other considerations that came into play. I know that for me, the 15v phantom power will work fine with Shure Beta87A mics that I own (but rarely use). If it was a recording console, I would feel differently and want the full 48v.
It's a weird choice. My little Bugera AC60 has 48v Phantom Power but not the wonderful EVs.
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Old 06-15-2022, 06:45 PM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Peavey was notorious for substandard phantom voltages.

Four years ago we were playing shows in the Midwest, and every venue had a sound system (since we flew out sans PA).

We show up at a winery to find an ancient Peavey PA system in the storage closet. Get it set up, signal check the guitars and then plug in our C535 condensor microphones we've used since the mid-Eighties.

Silence. Tried different cables, channels etc. Luckily they had two off-brand dynamics in a random paper bag, which is what we used for the show.

If it isn't 48v, it can really mess up your day.
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Old 06-15-2022, 06:54 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
Peavey was notorious for substandard phantom voltages.

Four years ago we were playing shows in the Midwest, and every venue had a sound system (since we flew out sans PA).

We show up at a winery to find an ancient Peavey PA system in the storage closet. Get it set up, signal check the guitars and then plug in our C535 condensor microphones we've used since the mid-Eighties.

Silence. Tried different cables, channels etc. Luckily they had two off-brand dynamics in a random paper bag, which is what we used for the show.

If it isn't 48v, it can really mess up your day.
Some microphone manufacturers state plainly that their microphones REQUIRE 48 vdc. The facts are the most will work at lower phantom supply voltage, but it's best to not take chances with that.
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Old 06-17-2022, 01:00 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Some microphone manufacturers state plainly that their microphones REQUIRE 48 vdc. The facts are the most will work at lower phantom supply voltage, but it's best to not take chances with that.

I donít believe that there is any risk to damaging the mic. Just risk in not getting the best possible sound live or on a recording.

I just got an xVive rechargeable phantom power supply that is switchable between 12 and 48 volts. I think that the idea is that if you use the lower 12v setting, you get a longer stretch on a battery charge. What I like is that I will be able to switch back and forth on a microphone to see the difference. If a particular mic works on the 12v setting and I canít hear a difference in the sound, then I know that it will work fine with the 30M/50M 15v phantom power. If it does make a difference, I can just use the external phantom power supply.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...m-power-supply
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Old 06-17-2022, 01:37 PM
Stringmaster Stringmaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkingston View Post
I donít believe that there is any risk to damaging the mic. Just risk in not getting the best possible sound live or on a recording.

I just got an xVive rechargeable phantom power supply that is switchable between 12 and 48 volts. I think that the idea is that if you use the lower 12v setting, you get a longer stretch on a battery charge. What I like is that I will be able to switch back and forth on a microphone to see the difference. If a particular mic works on the 12v setting and I canít hear a difference in the sound, then I know that it will work fine with the 30M/50M 15v phantom power. If it does make a difference, I can just use the external phantom power supply.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...m-power-supply
Have you tried it yet with a mic that likes 48V? Do you like it? I may pick one up...
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