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  #16  
Old 06-24-2022, 02:13 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I have used MANY systems.

Had great results using IRs, but mostly for recordings. Cuki helped me A LOT to achieve a huuuuge sound for recordings with them. Later, I got myself a ToneDexter and I got myself similar results.

The fact is: I only got great results for recordings, with IRs. Live, I could never use them.

Now, I'm using a dual source system, with a great preamp for control, and I have never been happier. My great friend AlohaChris always told me that, and it is true.

If I could use IR on one signal of my dual source, with a low blend, just to fix some of the meds of my K&K, so I didn't had to use so much of the EQ on my Felix2, I would use it... like Doug does (I guess). But since I don't know how to do it, and I'm having great results with the dual source, I'm just keeping it simple!

Here's a sample of my plugged in sound with my dual source, in a livestream I did. It generally sounds the same or even better live. Just skip the beginning of the video, because it was chopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s
Nice, PANDAPANDELO! AlohaChris Rocks, Too!
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Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2022, 02:33 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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My Choices:

Starting out raw with a fine guitar, preferably a Martin D-18 or Martin HD-28, or an up-scale model variation of these. I like a Trance Amulet M-VT or Ultra Tonic 3.2 system. Name on the headstock be danged, for a standalone guitar with a factory-installed system, there's a well-adjusted Taylor ES2 that just may do ya for. How about the Ibanez models such as the AAD300CE or PA300E with dual and triple-source systems respectively? Then there's the Yamaha FGX5 with its Atmosfeel System. The Ibanez models and Yamaha are lower-cost options that will do what needs to be done in a live performance without costing a lot of bread.

All the preceding examples are analog systems with no IR enhancement. If, however, a player feels IR enhancement could improve these systems without inducing the possibility of extra feedback and muddying-up of the amplified tone, then that would be a bonus.
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Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Ovation Elite Plus
Avian Skylark 2A
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2

Last edited by SpruceTop; 06-24-2022 at 03:12 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2022, 02:35 PM
static111 static111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
My Choices:

Starting out raw with a fine guitar, preferably a Martin D-18 or Martin HD-28, or an up-scale model variation of these, I like a Trance Amulet M-VT or Ultra Tonic 3.2 system. For a standalone guitar with a factory-installed system, how about the Ibanez models such as the AAD300CE or PA300E with dual and triple-source systems respectively? Then there's the Yamaha FGX5 with its Atmosfeel System.

All the preceding examples are analog systems with no IR enhancement. If, however, a player feels IR enhancement can improve these systems without inducing the possibility of extra feedback and muddying-up of the amplified tone, then that would be a bonus.
@SpruceTop How did you go about installing the Ultratonic? 6 minite epoxy or superglue? Did you use the magnet method that Mr May reccommends? Or create your own jig?
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2022, 02:41 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by static111 View Post
@SpruceTop How did you go about installing the Ultratonic? 6 minite epoxy or superglue? Did you use the magnet method that Mr May reccommends? Or create your own jig?
I used Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy with a homemade jig made of foamboard. James May recommends superglue but may have never tried a thin film of Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy. This is something I would want James to try and report his findings to us. The Henkel gives a much bigger window to the likely possibility of slightly repositioning the sensors, especially the larger feedback sensor, prior to the adhesive setting-up. Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy is what Teddy of Dazzo pickups recommends for mounting his Dazzo transducers and is what I've now used in mounting two Trance Amulet M-VT Phantom systems, two UltraTonic 3.2 systems, and two Dazzo #70 Systems.
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Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Ovation Elite Plus
Avian Skylark 2A
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2022, 03:11 PM
rb1591 rb1591 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO View Post
I have used MANY systems.
Here's a sample of my plugged in sound with my dual source, in a livestream I did. It generally sounds the same or even better live. Just skip the beginning of the video, because it was chopped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2sF_VYdck&t=11s
Nothing to add to the general discussion, but just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your livestream, Pandapandelo. Just beautiful!
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2022, 08:14 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
My Choices:

Starting out raw with a fine guitar, preferably a Martin D-18 or Martin HD-28, or an up-scale model variation of these. I like a Trance Amulet M-VT or Ultra Tonic 3.2 system. Name on the headstock be danged, for a standalone guitar with a factory-installed system, there's a well-adjusted Taylor ES2 that just may do ya for. How about the Ibanez models such as the AAD300CE or PA300E with dual and triple-source systems respectively? Then there's the Yamaha FGX5 with its Atmosfeel System. The Ibanez models and Yamaha are lower-cost options that will do what needs to be done in a live performance without costing a lot of bread.

All the preceding examples are analog systems with no IR enhancement. If, however, a player feels IR enhancement could improve these systems without inducing the possibility of extra feedback and muddying-up of the amplified tone, then that would be a bonus.

Thanks for adding to the discussion! BTW, l went to Chicago Music Exchange a few weeks ago to purchase a brand new (in box) Yamaha FGX5. They brought it up from the back and opened it for me. I played it for about 20 min and was about to purchase it. The sound was great and the pickup was great. Then I saw a used Larrivee LV-04 on the rack and picked it up. Done. That Larrivee was priced below the Yamaha and included the moon spruce European top and rosewood and sounded like a chorus of angels. It had a K&K installed that sounds completely balanced. I guess I got lucky. Someone else got a great Yamaha.
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Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis '16
Gibson Jumbo Historic '34
Larrivee LV-04 Rosewood '15
Guild F-512 '22
K&K Pickups via LR Baggs VPDI
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Less clicking, more picking.
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  #22  
Old 06-25-2022, 12:04 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Thanks for adding to the discussion! BTW, l went to Chicago Music Exchange a few weeks ago to purchase a brand new (in box) Yamaha FGX5. They brought it up from the back and opened it for me. I played it for about 20 min and was about to purchase it. The sound was great and the pickup was great. Then I saw a used Larrivee LV-04 on the rack and picked it up. Done. That Larrivee was priced below the Yamaha and included the moon spruce European top and rosewood and sounded like a chorus of angels. It had a K&K installed that sounds completely balanced. I guess I got lucky. Someone else got a great Yamaha.
Gotta Love Those Larrivees--One Of The Guitar World's Best Kept Secrets! Enjoy, Dave!
__________________
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Ovation Elite Plus
Avian Skylark 2A
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
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  #23  
Old 06-25-2022, 12:25 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Right now, I'm playing my Larrivee D-40M with Dazzo #70 Pickup System plugged directly into my VOX AG150 Acoustic Amp. The amp's input impedance is 1 MegaOhm and with all EQ set flat, I'm getting a wonderful amplified tone while sitting 6 feet away from the amp. Let me say that given the minimal components involved with a Dazzo system along with its installation using Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy, make it the easiest, simplest, permanent pickup system installation that's out there. There's just the endpin jack with the two transducers attached to fiddle with. The two Dazzo installations I've done were done by locating each transducer straddling the saddle line with one located between the 1st and 2nd strings and the other between the 6th and 5th strings. I've found that if a slightly mellower tone is desired, just locate each transducer about 1/16" inch (1.5 mm) forward toward the soundhole of each transducer being bisected by the saddle line.
__________________
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Ovation Elite Plus
Avian Skylark 2A
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
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  #24  
Old 06-25-2022, 12:44 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default My most consistent plugged in sound?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
Right now, I'm playing my Larrivee D-40M with Dazzo #70 Pickup System plugged directly into my VOX AG150 Acoustic Amp. The amp's input impedance is 1 MegaOhm and with all EQ set flat, I'm getting a wonderful amplified tone while sitting 6 feet away from the amp. Let me say that given the minimal components involved with a Dazzo system along with its installation using Henkel Loctite 6-Minute Epoxy, make it the easiest, simplest, permanent pickup system installation that's out there. There's just the endpin jack with the two transducers attached to fiddle with. The two Dazzo installations I've done were done by locating each transducer straddling the saddle line with one located between the 1st and 2nd strings and the other between the 6th and 5th strings. I've found that if a slightly mellower tone is desired, just locate each transducer about 1/16" inch (1.5 mm) forward toward the soundhole of each transducer being bisected by the saddle line.

I think if I had it all to do again with my passive pickups, I would consider Dazzos.

As of now, they’re all very settled in with the K&K. The Dazzo sounds like a semi-pre equalized K&K to me. The mids are reduced to a more normal level and the highs are stronger. Evidently the size of the set determines the bass response. It’s certainly a smart way to do it.

That said we are both enjoying the benefits of a passive system. I was sharing with Aaron today my thoughts on Anthem and Anthem SL. I was commenting that artists like Trey Hensley have standardized on the Anthem SL and get a great sound. My concern with any of those systems is the amount of stuff inside the guitar. I can hear it in the acoustic tone. It always seems to suffer when I install those system. However, if you’re a performing artist, who cares? It’s your bread and butter and the guitar is a tool. What’s a 10-20% change in tone? Nothing.

But if you’re like me and have a few (precious to you) instruments that you need to play out with occasionally, you want to do everything you can to get every “iota” of acoustic tone from your investment. In this case the passive sound board transducers accomplish exactly that, not to mention they sound very good at modest stage volumes.
__________________
Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis '16
Gibson Jumbo Historic '34
Larrivee LV-04 Rosewood '15
Guild F-512 '22
K&K Pickups via LR Baggs VPDI
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Less clicking, more picking.
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  #25  
Old 06-25-2022, 02:04 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I think if I had it all to do again with my passive pickups, I would consider Dazzos.

As of now, they’re all very settled in with the K&K. The Dazzo sounds like a semi-pre equalized K&K to me. The mids are reduced to a more normal level and the highs are stronger. Evidently the size of the set determines the bass response. It’s certainly a smart way to do it.

That said we are both enjoying the benefits of a passive system. I was sharing with Aaron today my thoughts on Anthem and Anthem SL. I was commenting that artists like Trey Hensley have standardized on the Anthem SL and get a great sound. My concern with any of those systems is the amount of stuff inside the guitar. I can hear it in the acoustic tone. It always seems to suffer when I install those system. However, if you’re a performing artist, who cares? It’s your bread and butter and the guitar is a tool. What’s a 10-20% change in tone? Nothing.

But if you’re like me and have a few (precious to you) instruments that you need to play out with occasionally, you want to do everything you can to get every “iota” of acoustic tone from your investment. In this case the passive sound board transducers accomplish exactly that, not to mention they sound very good at modest stage volumes.
My thoughts: As a mostly solo singer/guitarist over many years, I've always depended on having a strong but clear alternating bass register with a clear midrange and clear treble but it all has to sound warm too in that I combine bass, chords, and melodies within my playing style. Artists who reach the pinnacles of their genre usually have bands to back them--and with excellent musicians too!--so they don't have to depend on their amplified acoustic guitar tone as much as a solo performer with no soundman or band to help them out. Then again, if an artist identifies as being an excellent guitarist they'll also have an excellent amplified acoustic guitar setup, and that's icing on their cake as long as the soundman can make it consistently happen for them within a band and large-venue format.
__________________
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/Ultra Tonic
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-05
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R Tommy Emmanuel/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Ovation Elite Plus
Avian Skylark 2A
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2

Last edited by SpruceTop; 06-26-2022 at 12:13 PM.
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  #26  
Old 06-26-2022, 08:08 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Depending of what one actually means by " most consistent"
My 1999 Taylor 810 ce. with a Factory installed Fishmann Matrix was and is always a reliable plugged in system ..
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