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  #1  
Old 06-16-2022, 05:13 AM
smossy smossy is offline
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Default Getting the best sound from a dual-source pickup with Grace Felix 2?

Hi all,

I have a D-18 GE equipped with an internal DPA 4061 + K&K Pure Mini. I also have the Grace Felix 2 and I'm blending the mic + K&K.

So, at home, at lower volumes through an amp, I'm able to get a pretty great sound. But recently, I'm playing in a 4-peice bluegrass band at higher stage volumes through a PA and my sound has not been as good. It almost sounds over-driven. We are doing a tour through EU and so maybe there are differences in power as well (I live in the US.)

Here's how I have the Felix set up:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jge...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nTM...ew?usp=sharing

Mic is channel 1, pickup is channel 2. My chain is simple - I go from the guitar into input 2 of the Felix.

You'll notice that the phase shift for channel 2 (the pickup) is engaged. Other than that, I've left everything else phase-wise as default from factory. The only internal jumpers I've configured are the ones that enable channel 1 to power the mic as well as only apply boost to channel 2.

I've noticed red clip light on channel 2.. Maybe I should back off this? I use the boost for solos.

Also.. when I'm going out through XLR.. should I be going out through channel 1 or channel 2 (does it matter?) I have both set to "mix". I just want to make sure both mic+pickup are going out to the PA.

I've read the manual but still struggling with how to get the optimal sound.. thanks all!

Last edited by smossy; 06-16-2022 at 05:37 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2022, 07:22 AM
PANDAPANDELO PANDAPANDELO is offline
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It seems some problem at gain staging. You can dial back the gain for the channel two, and start from there. Even channel 1 could be with the gain too high. It may vary for mic to mic. I'm using the K&K Trinity system, and it works flawlessly. It takes some time, trial and error, but you will get there.

Just note that you probably play different at home (softer) than live... and the problem might be just that. So... just lower the gain a little and see what happens
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  #3  
Old 06-16-2022, 10:31 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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I have a nearly identical setup, though I use a stand mounted DPA 2028.

My K&K equipped Martin CEO sounds way better when the gain is set so that on my Felix the green light is not completely solid but flickers on and off (about 10:30 on the dial).

When it's higher, the sound is "driven and sharp and harsh".

The other thing I like is a deep and broad cut in the 650hz area. The Felix is very musical even with a 12dB cut here.
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Old 06-16-2022, 03:53 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Gain set on the K&K looks a bit too mucho in the pic. 10.30 as described would be much better and will give you no distortion.
I use DPA4061 with Dazzo, K&K and UltraTonic (+ Grace Felix) and set the gain on ch1 and HPF just like you did in your pic, but without any additional EQ beside the HPF( bass, middle, treble all flat).
No difference on the XLR outputs.
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Old 06-16-2022, 08:36 PM
guitarwebguy guitarwebguy is offline
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I agree with everyone’s else’s comments - I use a trinity and as much as I am tempted to push the Felix, I don’t because rather Felix is so good that you just need to tweak it and watch that clipping indicator! It will take you some time but maybe at a practice the brand can give you a bit of leeway so that you can fine tune it!
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Old 06-19-2022, 03:23 AM
smossy smossy is offline
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Thanks all! Sounds like I should back off the gain a bit. For those using dual-source with the Felix- what settings do you all use for phase options? There’s phase shift buttons on the side of the Felix- one for each channel. If I have a DPA mic and K&K, should I set these buttons opposite one another ? The manual makes it seem like you should just use your ear .

Would also be curious if anyone’s using the variable phase shift option to good effect..I’ve not touched it yet.

Thanks all for the great advice !
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Old 06-19-2022, 07:29 AM
mondoslug mondoslug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smossy View Post
There’s phase shift buttons on the side of the Felix- one for each channel. If I have a DPA mic and K&K, should I set these buttons opposite one another ? The manual makes it seem like you should just use your ear .
Hey there...nice rig. Yeah, go with the manual. One way's going to sound "right" over the other. You'll know it when you hear it.
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Old 06-19-2022, 12:49 PM
guitarman68 guitarman68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondoslug View Post
You'll know it when you hear it.
This ! Tried it with various combos, sometimes it enhances the sound, sometimes no effect at all. Yesterday night I gigged with two guitars, both equipped with Schatten HFN pickups. Phase switch engaged on the pickup channel brought some bass that I liked. Did not need it with K&K and Dazzo (all with a DPA4061).
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mandolin family, Weissenborn, dobro, lap steel, 5-string banjo
PU: Dazzo, UltraTonic, Mimesis Kudos, Schatten HFN, K&K Trinity
mics: DPA4061, K&K Trinity, Neumann KM85
preamps: Grace Felix 2, SunnAudio,ToneDexter, RedEye
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Old 06-19-2022, 11:57 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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I'd say you're driving it too hard. You don't want the red light coming on often. It's a clip warning. Felix also has a pretty healthy output level, you could easily be overdriving your PA or whatever you're plugging into.

With an internal mic, what I usually find is that the mic is so uncorrelated with the other pickup that the phase makes very little difference, tho I'd be interested in seeing if the new continuous phase control feature would make more difference than just the phase switch.

What I typically do with an internal mic is roll a lot of low end off, using the high pass filter. Internal mics are boomy, and the lows are where it tends to feed back. By cutting the low end (say everything below 250Hz) the frequencies where you would be most likely to notice phase cancellation between the sources aren't there, so the phase control may make less difference with this setup. Back when I used an SBT+Mag, I found that a continuous phase control was a big help, tho. So it just depends.
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Old 06-20-2022, 11:21 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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The phase buttons of my Felix/Pick-up/Mic create quite different EQs.

There really is no "right". Pick a sound that you like.
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Old 06-28-2022, 05:15 PM
smossy smossy is offline
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Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. I still want to clarify some questions ..

On the back of the Felix, there’s a button for channel one that reads channel 1 / mix (square for channel 1, line for mix).

Do I press the button in to set it to “mix”? I don’t get the square / line thing.


There’s also a “level” button for channel 1 and 2 with “line” and “mic” option. If I’m blending a mic and pickup - how do I want to set this button? I’m going out xlr and wanting to blend both signals.

Finally.. does it matter if I go out on Channel 1 or 2 if I’m blending mic + pickup?

I’m sorry for the redundancy .. I have not been able to figure this stuff out by reading the manual.

To add :

I thought I had this dialed in.. I was getting a good strong clear signal from both mic and pickup but tonight I wasn’t getting any green light for the mic . Which was weird , because I could still tap on the DPA and get a sound , so it certainly seemed like the mic was on.

For some reason, even though I haven’t changed settings , some nights I don’t get anything on the mic channel..

Last edited by smossy; 06-28-2022 at 05:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2022, 05:45 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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I'll try to help.

Each channel has a dedicated output. You can select to "mix in the other channel" or not.

The output strength of each can be either "Line" (strong signal generally outputted from preamps), or mic (weaker signal generally outputted from microphones).

I too have seen the gain light act oddly, especially with condenser mics. I haven't yet determined absolutely what's going on.
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