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  #1  
Old 06-17-2022, 02:30 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default LR Baggs Lyric and Voice Print DI is Promising

I installed the Lyric in my Guild F-512 on the treble side of the bridge plate parallel to x brace. I trained my (purchased refurbished) Voice Print DI pedal with the iPhone app using the standard process. The result is excellent at home. I intend to try it out and report back. A am now considering a second Lyric for the new D-28 Authentic. It seems to capture the highs more authentically with the Lyric. I think it ends up being a process of reduction versus addition as with the K&K. I have K&Ks in the Marquis and the Larrivee. Both sound great with the VPDI. It really becomes a question of active versus passive pickups and how much "air" you're looking for.

I'll be sharing thoughts with Cuki and Aaron Short. Aaron is going through a similar demo. Cuki will unboundedly put us to shame with his analysis.

Iím waiting for Aaron to report back on his Lyric experience with his matching D-28 Authentic before I take a dive on that one.

I became impressed with the VPDI enough to pilfer my electric guitar pedal board and make a little one for the acoustic.



As far as these ears are concerned, it seems like a good solution for some folks who want the air of a mic.

I'll try to keep this up to date.
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Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis
Larrivee L-09
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Less clicking, more picking.

Last edited by martingitdave; 06-17-2022 at 03:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2022, 02:35 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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There is some question of whether the Voice Print is an IR (ultra super detailed phase accurate EQ for the less technical) or Tone Match (more detailed than a typical graphic EQ, but not in the IR class). Regardless, I would have hoped a Lyric using a mic for everything above 200 Hz or so would be so good a Voice Print would not be needed. Or at least you would need a first class IR to get to the next level. Do you have a ToneDexter to compare the Voice Print to?

Any interest in sending me a recording for a custom IR?
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2022, 02:38 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default LR Baggs Lyric and Voice Print DI is Promising

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
There is some question of whether the Voice Print is an IR (ultra super detailed phase accurate EQ for the less technical) or Tone Match (more detailed than a typical graphic EQ, but not in the IR class). Regardless, I would have hoped a Lyric using a mic for everything above 200 Hz or so would be so good a Voice Print would not be needed. Or at least you would need a first class IR to get to the next level. Do you have a ToneDexter to compare the Voice Print to?

This was very much my impression. Almost a bit to Cukiís para EQ soliton for the dual source.

It works extremely well because it eliminates the mid range honk from the lyric, restores the bottom end and leaves the highs mostly alone.

On the K&K the results were very much in line with what I experienced with ToneDexter. The ToneDexter was sold.

I currently have no recording setup. Waiting for Fatherís Day. :-). If I do get one I will share with you and Kien and you can dissect for the good of science and nerddom. :-)
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Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis
Larrivee L-09
Guild F-512
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Less clicking, more picking.

Last edited by martingitdave; 06-17-2022 at 02:59 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2022, 04:06 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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The Voiceprint has been on my radar for quite some time, but whenever I hear demoes, it just doesn't sound that good. Either way too much bottom end or bright/thin. I might try it for a week and return it if it's not too my liking.

With that said, I loved the feel and overall tone of the Lyric. It's still the only pickup where I just lost playing plugged in. The downside? The bass is severely lacking. It would be cool if the VP could bring some of that bass back. It's odd though, I didn't like the Anthem as much. The full frequency Lyric just sounds better.

On a side note, are you not having any issues with the Line 6 G10 and the active Lyric?
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Old 06-17-2022, 05:16 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
The Voiceprint has been on my radar for quite some time, but whenever I hear demoes, it just doesn't sound that good. Either way too much bottom end or bright/thin. I might try it for a week and return it if it's not too my liking.

With that said, I loved the feel and overall tone of the Lyric. It's still the only pickup where I just lost playing plugged in. The downside? The bass is severely lacking. It would be cool if the VP could bring some of that bass back. It's odd though, I didn't like the Anthem as much. The full frequency Lyric just sounds better.

On a side note, are you not having any issues with the Line 6 G10 and the active Lyric?
I think there might be some interference with the Line 6 and the Lyric. Something that is making me question the Lyric again.
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Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis
Larrivee L-09
Guild F-512
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Less clicking, more picking.
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  #6  
Old 06-17-2022, 08:54 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I think there might be some interference with the Line 6 and the Lyric. Something that is making me question the Lyric again.
The G10 is still my favourite wireless system. It has never failed me live. I use it with passive pickups though. The weird thing is, it works flawlessly with my Godin mandolin which has active pickups.

I am looking to go back to the Anthem or Fishman Matrix with the Aura spectrum. Might be more realistic options out there, but I am finding that all the experimenting is getting old, I just want something that sounds consistent and good!
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Old 06-18-2022, 05:08 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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A small update. I tinkered with Lyric / VPDI and I can report back that with the Guild 12 string, it sounds phenomenal at lower volumes, but (predictably) feeds back significantly at higher volumes. When engaging the VPDI feedback control, I find that the sound is relegated to the pre-voice print tone of the Lyric I was trying to avoid. The bass goes away and it's fairly drastic. I'm sure I could try and surgically play with the EQ, but it defeats the purpose of a simple tool that has automatic features, which is why I bought it. The bottom line is that the Lyric is a mic and mic feedback is hard to control. Though, in fairness it is more easily solved with a sound hole cover, if you are one to use those. With the cover, I think you can easily get 80-90% of the quality of sound without the feedback.

Regarding the VPDI settings, I found that no more than 50% image was required when using the Lyric. When using the K&K's more image is required, and the EQ setting for bumping the highs is useful in the dreadnoughts. I found the K&K in my Larrivee LV-04 required no EQ and about 70% image. It's a very good tone. Feedback with the K&K is easy for the pedal to knock out, unlike the Lyric.

So, I will close this experiment by saying that Lyric + VPDI is excellent to my ears but be prepared to use a sound hole cover. K&K + VPDI is a little less dynamic but still very good and easier to control feedback because of the nature of the pickup. For my use case, the K&K wins out and I installed one in the Guild and removed the Lyric. It was bittersweet but makes more sense for me.

I suspect I will eventually glue a K&K in the Authentic when I am ready to play that guitar out live.

Hopefully this thread doesn't t read like a K&K endorsement. It isn't meant to be. I just found that choosing a consistent platform was easier. I perform with multiple instruments and this pedal (like the ToneDexter before it) let's me get good tone from all of them with predictable levels and reasonable feedback control baked into the preset. I envision sending the DI out to the house where they can feel comfortable to leave it flat and add reverb to taste. And to Petty1818's comment above, the passive pickup with the wireless is more dependable.
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Martin D-28 Custom Authentic '37
Martin D-28 Marquis
Larrivee L-09
Guild F-512
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Less clicking, more picking.

Last edited by martingitdave; 06-18-2022 at 05:17 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-18-2022, 07:45 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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I always use a feedback plug these days. I love being able to walk around the stage and never worry about feedback from a speaker. It also stops sound from bleeding into my loops and it protects the edges of the sound hole as well. I cannot see a reason to not use one.

You should try one with the Lyric and see if it stops the feedback issues.
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Old 06-18-2022, 08:16 PM
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Chriscom Chriscom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I always use a feedback plug these days. I love being able to walk around the stage and never worry about feedback from a speaker. It also stops sound from bleeding into my loops and it protects the edges of the sound hole as well. I cannot see a reason to not use one....
Soundhole controls.

Even if it doesn't impinge on them, with my Martins I often fiddle with the volume control depending on what's going on around me, and I also sometimes use it as a boost when I switch from flatpick strumming to fingerpicking (w/o fingerpicks). I certainly see the benefits of the plug though.

My main gigging guitars also have that mid-scoop tone control along wtih volume, but I just leave that flat and EQ through a mixer which is more effective anyway. My nice Martin (that I don't gig with) has that Enhance imaging blend wheel on the other side of the soundhole.
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Old 06-18-2022, 10:57 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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You just cut a slot at the top so that you can still access the controls if needed. It still resists the feedback well.
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Old 06-19-2022, 07:51 AM
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You just cut a slot at the top so that you can still access the controls if needed. It still resists the feedback well.
Thanks Aaron.
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