Texas high school shooting

[cotten]

If it were up to me, the identity of school shooters would be available on a need to know basis only. No one would ever gain infamy by murdering innocent school children. Is this the solution? No, but I think it would eliminate one big contributing factor.


cotten

[Bob Womack]

Mmmm... I was at my granddaughter's high school Thursday night for a concert and a two things struck me:
1) There was no security at all in a school that is declared a no-self defense zone, as they all are. That was an odd feeling. What if a no-gooder had waltzed in?
2) Afterwards there was a chorus department end-of-year party. I was initially impressed by the camaraderie they all shared and the warm, no-competition atmosphere I observed amongst the whole group. Now, I graduated in 1975, and let me tell you my school days were a hell of bullying, discrimination, and flagrant competition. But here comes an observation and the question: By the time I reached high school I had been bullied, discriminated against, and had lost enough of the great competition that I was thoroughly experienced in it all and could handle it and defend myself without resulting to extreme violence. Have we removed so much of the sturm and drang, right down to the lightest forms, and created these "safe spaces," with the result that our children are no longer equipped to handle the crap life throws at them, bringing out the worst in any of the children who are exposed to it and making some poorly emotionally-equipped to handle it?

Bob

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Mmmm... I was at my granddaughter's high school Thursday night for a concert and a two things struck me:
1) There was no security at all in a school that is declared a no-self defense zone, as they all are. That was an odd feeling. What if a no-gooder had waltzed in?
2) Afterwards there was a chorus department end-of-year party. I was initially impressed by the camaraderie they all shared and the warm, no-competition atmosphere I observed amongst the whole group. Now, I graduated in 1975, and let me tell you my school days were a hell of bullying, discrimination, and flagrant competition. But here comes an observation and the question: By the time I reached high school I had been bullied, discriminated against, and had lost enough of the great competition that I was thoroughly experienced in it all and could handle it and defend myself without resulting to extreme violence. Have we removed so much of the sturm and drang, right down to the lightest forms, and created these "safe spaces," with the result that our children are no longer equipped to handle the crap life throws at them, bringing out the worst in any of the children who are exposed to it and making some poorly emotionally-equipped to handle it?

Bob

That is one of the problems. We don't teach children problem resolution anymore.

We no longer let children just play and learn to resolve differences. From the youngest age they are put into organized activities, and told if they have a problem to tell an adult. Kids in school are punished for fighting. Back in the day we would fight, and then move one. Now it festers.

When children do not know how to resolve conflict, some of them will explode.

But it continues. Children that don't know how to resolve conflict turn into adults that do not know how to resolve conflict. So when they have a problem, they expect someone else to solve it for them, hence the high proliferation of divorce.

I think we could use a little less playtime supervision of children, and let them find their own way. Less organized activities. Less punishment for schoolyard fistfights. Let them learn conflict resolution.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by cotten

If it were up to me, the identity of school shooters would be available on a need to know basis only. No one would ever gain infamy by murdering innocent school children. Is this the solution? No, but I think it would eliminate one big contributing factor.


cotten

Exactly........

No more "15 minutes of fame"

[cmac]

Two thoughts on this, both likely to be unpopular.

First, If a thing happens to me and I don't want it to happen again then I will change something. Ergo, if I don't change something then it's because I'm ok with it happening again. In the same way, though it is sad to say so, school shootings have become acceptable. I don't mean they are acceptable to me, or to any other individual here, but the simple fact that nothing is being done to try to stop them means that they have become acceptable, albeit undesirable, features of modern life.

Second, even if someone wanted to do something about it it's very likely there's nothing that can be done. The various genies are all out of their respective bottles and you can't get them back in. And even if you could, there's no collective will to do so.

[Edgar Poe]

Originally Posted by Nyghthawk

Owners, be responsible. Secure your weapons. Please.

Pay attention to your kids, if they want a gun, they will find a gun.

Ed

[TBman]

Originally Posted by cmac

In the same way, though it is sad to say so, school shootings have become acceptable.

Sad but true. The same thing has happened with automobile accidents. The first thing out of someone's mouth when you talk about the 40,000+ deaths a year on the roads is "but there are so many people driving..."

As if that's an excuse.

Restrict the horsepower on vehicles. Very simple. Is it done? No.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by cotten

If it were up to me, the identity of school shooters would be available on a need to know basis only. No one would ever gain infamy by murdering innocent school children. Is this the solution? No, but I think it would eliminate one big contributing factor.


cotten

There is definitely some merit in this thought in the sense that the reality is, "school shootings" have been with us since before we were a country, 1764.
The difference is now it becomes a media frenzy and blitz of headlines and sound bites. How we address this is one of many things that need to be looked at

[JCave]

Just saw that JJ Watt is paying for the funerals of all 10.

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Now, I graduated in 1975, and let me tell you my school days were a hell of bullying, discrimination, and flagrant competition. But here comes an observation and the question: By the time I reached high school I had been bullied, discriminated against, and had lost enough of the great competition that I was thoroughly experienced in it all and could handle it and defend myself without resulting to extreme violence. Have we removed so much of the sturm and drang, right down to the lightest forms, and created these "safe spaces," with the result that our children are no longer equipped to handle the crap life throws at them, bringing out the worst in any of the children who are exposed to it and making some poorly emotionally-equipped to handle it?

Bob

You've made some very valid points there, Bob..

I graduated HS in 1967, and my experiences were pretty much the same...When I was bullied, I fought back (as expected back then)...sometimes I won, sometimes I lost...but I grew up with self esteem, learned how to handle myself, and realized that in the real world, life isn't always "fair"...

I don't think kids today are being allowed to lose a ball game, nobody fails, everybody gets a trophy...if there's a problem or a disagreement, an organization will keep you from getting scuffed up or your feelings hurt, and take you to your "safe space"...

IMO, that's a blueprint to raise a person who's so helpless and fragile, that we see them commit these horrendous acts later in life...

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by KevWind

There is definitely some merit in this thought in the sense that the reality is, "school shootings" have been with us since before we were a country, 1764.
The difference is now it becomes a media frenzy and blitz of headlines and sound bites. How we address this is one of many things that need to be looked at

I don't think that matters one bit. As far as I can tell, no one was looking for fame. No one ever got famous. Its an easy thing to say, but I don't believe it would make one iota of a difference.

[Fogducker]

May 18, 1927, Bath, Michigan a bombing at a school killing 38 elementary students, 6 adults and injuring 58 others. A second bomb of 500lbs TNT etc. didn't go off. This was the most deadly school killing spree!


This madness has been with us for a long time and unfortunately will repeat in the future. I won't go on because of the forum guidelines.

Fog

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I don't think that matters one bit. As far as I can tell, no one was looking for fame. No one ever got famous. Its an easy thing to say, but I don't believe it would make one iota of a difference.

It isn't about "looking for fame" or not . It is the fact the media attention put's it out to an exponentially much wider and larger audience of impressionable troubled youth who can be subject to copycat behavior which is a fact plain and simple . The behavior has always happened but at nowhere near the regularity of today, and it was also never plastered on every media outlet in the country until recent decades . Questioning the chronological association of those two factors, as being a "possible" contributing factor of what is different now, is both logical and objective , and certainly as much or more so than trite rhetoric about what is or isn't being taught to the young, or how the culture is at fault.

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by KevWind

It isn't about "looking for fame" or not . It is the fact the media attention put's it into an exponentially much wider audience of impressionable troubled youth who can be subject to copycat behavior which is a fact plain and simple . The behavior has always happened but at nowhere near the regularity of today, and it was also never plastered on every media outlet in the country until recent decades . Questioning the chronological association of those two factors, as being a "possible" contributing factor of what is different now, is both logical and objective , and certainly as much or more so than trite rhetoric about what is or isn't being taught to the young, or how the culture is at fault.

When something like that happens, it IS news. Granted, the news used to be a newspaper, and one of three nightly news shows. Now it's on tv, on the internet and on phones, 24 hours a day. We can't put that genie back in the bottle.

I think the culture is at fault. There is no other explanation. Now, what parts of the culture are at fault is subject to debate, but for sure it's the culture we live in.

[cotten]

It is indeed news, Gmountain, but I do believe we would be better off not identifying to the general public who these school shooters. Why? Because though I don't have the reports on hand to share, I remember that the Columbine murderers did indeed become some sort of role models for some who came after them. (Can anyone verify or refute this for me?)

Not giving out endless stories about each school killer would at least take away that possible motivation. Let a school murderer be known, except to those who need to know, simply as the Santa Fe Texas school murderer, not by his name and complete biography. I know it's not a final solution, but I do believe it is a step in the right direction, one we can discuss here without running afoul of our forum rules.