Installed my HFN today - Page 5

Petty1818 · #61 01-24-2019, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I don't either. I wish I did. My tech is fantastic, and he does a lot of installs, but this was his first Schatten. I read on here about the tape / putty on the middle and asked him to do it that way.

I will say that I have no loss of lows. It sounds very balanced and natural to me and I played it through a nice little club PA tonight with a sound guy that told me my guitar sounded amazing with everything set very close to flat.

It's a Yamaha board, two QSC K12 front of house over two KW181 subs and JBL PRX10 stage monitors. It's an open mic that my buddy runs and I had the night off so I went. I had a bunch of players ask me what the guitar was and why it sounded so good.

There was a guy with a really nice Taylor dread, but it had a Fishman pickup in it. A decent sounding Tak. An Alvarez Yairi, a smaller bodied Martin (lower end model) and a Yamaha dread. I did use my Red-Eye pre.

I was wondering the same thing. I removed a K&K mini from this guitar to install the Schatten and it was a huge improvement. Night and day actually.

Maybe it's the guitar, the install, ... I wish I knew. I'm just glad that I didn't try it myself. I'm all thumbs.

I think he said he used a couple golf tees through the bridge pin holes to help find where it should go.

It could be something is wrong with the pickup, or as you said, the install. I have no business putting my hands inside a guitar. Shoot, I barely have any business putting my hands on the outside of one.

I really hope you get this sorted out, because so far I'm really impressed with this pickup. I'll add that I had a pretty hot monitor in front of me and had zero feedback issues.

I totally used to be that way and there are definitely things I will not try with guitar. However, I tried installing my first pickup a couple of years ago (Lyric) and honestly it's not bad at all. I don't think I am making an error in terms of attaching the pickup, it's just not picking up the low E for whatever reason. Maybe I need to shift the HFN down towards the high strings a bit. I emailed Les though so we shall see what he says. It's too bad though because I love everything about this pickup except the obvious issue.

GuitarLuva · #62 01-24-2019, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I totally used to be that way and there are definitely things I will not try with guitar. However, I tried installing my first pickup a couple of years ago (Lyric) and honestly it's not bad at all. I don't think I am making an error in terms of attaching the pickup, it's just not picking up the low E for whatever reason. Maybe I need to shift the HFN down towards the high strings a bit. I emailed Les though so we shall see what he says. It's too bad though because I love everything about this pickup except the obvious issue.

Yeah that's too bad that you're having that issue. I've never been so happy with a pickup before as I am with the Schatten HFN. For me the pickup is literally plug and play.Hopefully you get it figured out. Did your friend receive his active version yet?

Petty1818 · #63 01-24-2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Yeah that's too bad that you're having that issue. I've never been so happy with a pickup before as I am with the Schatten HFN. For me the pickup is literally plug and play.Hopefully you get it figured out. Did your friend receive his active version yet?

He did but he was sent the wrong one (active but no volume or tone). This was from a dealer, not Schatten directly. I am waiting to see how he does with the install. I am definitely scratching my head about what's causing the issues with mine.

TNO · #64 01-24-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Kid!

My tech installed mine with tape on the outer foot and putty on the middle foot. It sounds incredible. The balance is great and I have plenty of lows and low mids. It's far more natural sounding than the K&K without that midrange spike.

The K&K sounds good with some setups, but I just couldn't dial out that annoying mid freq. The Schatten is smoother, more balanced, and natural to my ears. So far so good. I can't wait to try it on my Thursday gig tomorrow.

I have to make some Tonedexter profiles for it so I can A/B with and without profiling, but so far I think it's going to stay. Gotta see what a high volume situation brings.

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

The Kid! · #65 01-24-2019, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNO

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

Thank you. The guitar sounded so full and natural.
I could be the pickup, the guitar (1952 Gibson J-45), or the PA, or likely a combination of all of it.

The Kid! · #66 01-24-2019, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Yeah that's too bad that you're having that issue. I've never been so happy with a pickup before as I am with the Schatten HFN. For me the pickup is literally plug and play.Hopefully you get it figured out. Did your friend receive his active version yet?

The passive version is crazy good. I wonder how the active and artist are in comparison...

Peter Z · #67 01-24-2019, 12:22 PM

Petty,
Is it possible that the 'tape-outside-and-putty-in-the-middle-method' works successfully if the bridgeplate is not flat so that the middle foot of the HFN doesn't have enought pressure?

If so, it can also be that the bridge plate is deformed in anouther way so that one of the outer feet doesn't have enought pressure to the bridge plate. In that case you can try to put putty on one outer foot and tape on the other two feet. Who knows?

And if it's a phase issue I would also try to turn the pickup around i.e. if the cable connected side was at the low E string turn it around so that it is on the high e string side. I know it sound weird because the pickup should be symmetrical but more that often phase is weird. Wo knows?

Petty1818 · #68 01-24-2019, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Z

Petty,
Is it possible that the 'tape-outside-and-putty-in-the-middle-method' works successfully if the bridgeplate is not flat so that the middle foot of the HFN doesn't have enought pressure?

If so, it can also be that the bridge plate is deformed in anouther way so that one of the outer feet doesn't have enought pressure to the bridge plate. In that case you can try to put putty on one outer foot and tape on the other two feet. Who knows?

And if it's a phase issue I would also try to turn the pickup around i.e. if the cable connected side was at the low E string turn it around so that it is on the high e string side. I know it sound weird because the pickup should be symmetrical but more that often phase is weird. Wo knows?

Yeah, I was actually considering turning it around and trying that. It's interesting because I noticed in the pic that TNO posted, that my wire seems to be coming out of the opposite side of my HFN when compared to hos. This is very hard to explain but in the arches, there are two bars that are closer to one side than the other. With TNO's pic, these bars are facing the bridge pins with the wire to the output jack coming out the end closest to the pickguard. If I position mine this way, the wire comes out the opposite way, towards the low E string. I have no idea if those bars mean anything but maybe there is a way that the pickup should be facing.

TNO · #69 01-24-2019, 12:37 PM

I just went by pics I found that showed the installation with the lead coming off the treble side. The first five installations I did weren't balanced so I don't think turning it around would make much difference.

Petty1818 · #70 01-24-2019, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNO

I just went by pics I found that showed the installation with the lead coming off the treble side. The first five installations I did weren't balanced so I don't think turning it around would make much difference.

Yeah I don't think it will make a difference but I did email Les so hopefully I can get this sorted out. It's such a good pickup that it would be a shame to not make it work.

Monsum · #71 01-24-2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

On a side note, I am not sure how to explain this but on the ABS base, there are two arches between the three feet and inside those arches there's a bar that's closer to one side of the base than the other. Does it matter which way this is facing?

I was going to ask the same question but was a bit embarrassed in case it's obvious which way round it needs to be installed. Anyway, mine has a cable on the bass side.
I'll flip it round next time and see if this makes any difference.
There is hope as it seems that some HFN users here got a good string balance.

And, please let us know what Les replied.

DownUpDave · #72 01-24-2019, 02:02 PM

I have followed both of the HFN threads with great interest. I like the idea of this pick up, it's Canadian, so am I and I like the comments about the natural sound. But getting it installed so it sounds right and is balanced seems to be the issue. Seems to be a big issue for more people then not. Installing and reinstalling 4 or 5 times with different combinations of tape and putty and repositioning isn't my idea of a good time. Anybody without a dog in the fight might just say "why bother"!!!

I wanted to put one of these in my Eastman 00 but now I am not so sure. I guess I could have a tech do it but is he willing to go through all this trying and retrying to make it sound right, don't know.

Not trying to rain on anybodies parade, just thinking out loud and voicing a concern.

Petty1818 · #73 01-24-2019, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownUpDave

I have followed both of the HFN threads with great interest. I like the idea of this pick up, it's Canadian, so am I and I like the comments about the natural sound. But getting it installed so it sounds right and is balanced seems to be the issue. Seems to be a big issue for more people then not. Installing and reinstalling 4 or 5 times with different combinations of tape and putty and repositioning isn't my idea of a good time. Anybody without a dog in the fight might just say "why bother"!!!

I wanted to put one of these in my Eastman 00 but now I am not so sure. I guess I could have a tech do it but is he willing to go through all this trying and retrying to make it sound right, don't know.

Not trying to rain on anybodies parade, just thinking out loud and voicing a concern.

I totally get that. I am Canadian as well so I will admit that I am proud to have a pickup this good made by a fellow Canadian. I hate experimenting so I hope Les has some suggestions. I think before I install again, I am going to try and see if I can gauge the bridge plate to see how flat it really is. If there's something a bit off with it then maybe it's just a matter of sanding it a bit or sanding down one of the feet. It still makes me wonder if there's something there that also caused my Amulet M to sound less than ideal. The only difference is that the HFN sounds amazing, it's just the low E is weak.

TNO · #74 01-24-2019, 02:23 PM

The answer to "why bother" is because you end up with an affordable pickup that sounds great with very little to no eq and decent feedback resistance.

TheKid! had his tech use the method I detailed above and got great results. You shouldn't need to experiment with multiple installs if you do it that way.

The key thing is to only use a small amount of putty or tape on the middle foot, only enough to cover maybe 1/3 of the surface.

GuitarLuva · #75 01-24-2019, 02:53 PM

Just to reiterate I'm after removing this pickup and reinstalling several times, trying the various methods, etc. and never once experienced any string balancing issues. For what its worth, I personally don't know if it makes a difference, but the wires on my pickup are also on the bass side. I honestly can't see that making a difference though.