At last ...the StewMac Z Fret crowning file

[emmsone]

I wasn't going to comment in this thread as I haven't ever used a "crowning file", i only own a triangular file which has done me ok so far and an invention to make things easier is always handy, but i'm slightly confused by this Z file and the more I read the more confused i'm getting.
As i see it, if you keep your Z file perfectly vertical, wont the straight edges inside the file give you flat fret sides and leave a triangular profiled fret?
if you tilt the file slightly while filing to allow you to get a "round" profile, this can allow you to accidentally tilt too far and end up filing the top of your frets despite the blurb says it wont do that (but surely thats only if you hold your file vertical the whole time). Am i completely wrong and triangular frets are the way forward? Or am i missing how the file actually works? Even the diagram on the website/in the catalog isn't helping me get my head round this.
Sorry for the hi-jack

Dave

[J.acoustic]

Originally Posted by emmsone

I wasn't going to comment in this thread as I haven't ever used a "crowning file", i only own a triangular file which has done me ok so far and an invention to make things easier is always handy, but i'm slightly confused by this Z file and the more I read the more confused i'm getting.
As i see it, if you keep your Z file perfectly vertical, wont the straight edges inside the file give you flat fret sides and leave a triangular profiled fret?
if you tilt the file slightly while filing to allow you to get a "round" profile, this can allow you to accidentally tilt too far and end up filing the top of your frets despite the blurb says it wont do that (but surely thats only if you hold your file vertical the whole time). Am i completely wrong and triangular frets are the way forward? Or am i missing how the file actually works? Even the diagram on the website/in the catalog isn't helping me get my head round this.
Sorry for the hi-jack

Dave

I am thinking the same thing. I would love someone who has used it to let us know what they think (or just someone who understands it better than myself).

[fazool]

Originally Posted by dekutree64

Kind of looks like a ripoff of the LittleBone approach to crowning...
...

This discussion introduced me to the concept. I just bought a Little Bone file.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by emmsone

. Am i completely wrong and triangular frets are the way forward?

Triangular frets are, or should be, the way forward IMO. Entrenched conservatism will however ensure that only the enlightened few will ever perceive and experience the benefit.

If anybody can explain the benefit in having a mass of material bulging out on both sides between the apex and the base of the fret, compared to a triangular profile with a thin rounded apex, I would be delighted to hear it.

And just before anybody says that the triangular fret wears quicker ...it doesn't. (Voice of experience ... not of theory).

[endpin]

Pre-shaped fret crowning files rarely match the profile of the frets you are working on and the final shape you are going to end up with, so some hand touch up to blend the faceting is usually done.

Proponents of flat files are just pointing out they can do all of that with one tool rather than two.

[Sam VanLaningham]

Thx for the post, murrmac. I am definitely a fan of a v-shaped fret. The plek machines make a more v-shaped fret. My Santa Cruz was originally un-pleked (before they were using plek technology I think) and then went in for new bridge warranty repair and came back pleked. The intonation is stunningly good. It may be just as much About the whole fretboard scan etc that plek does, but indeed the frets are pretty v-shaped. So when I'm ready to spend the money id prefer this tool as well!

But geez, how will I ever find enough room in my space-limited shop for it.... What it must be like 6" long and at least 3/8" tall, if not more! Not to mention the width. Wherever will I find such a space!

Sam

[Rodger Knox]

You can put it in the hole in your wallet.

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Triangular frets are, or should be, the way forward IMO. Entrenched conservatism will however ensure that only the enlightened few will ever perceive and experience the benefit.

If anybody can explain the benefit in having a mass of material bulging out on both sides between the apex and the base of the fret, compared to a triangular profile with a thin rounded apex, I would be delighted to hear it.

And just before anybody says that the triangular fret wears quicker ...it doesn't. (Voice of experience ... not of theory).

Is the way you shape your frets literally as triangular as drawn in the diagram?


I'm open to the possibility that triangular frets might have some advantage for feel over conventionally shaped frets. I would have to play a guitar that has them to be convinced though.

I don't buy the idea that intonation with conventional frets is somehow inherently inferior to that with a triangular shaped fret. The intonation with respect to the fret is determined by the position and width of the contact point on the top of the fret, not the overall shape of the fret. The radius of the convex file I use is such that it initially removes material from the shoulders of the frets without touching the top of the fret. I mark my frets with a sharpie before filing and I can easily produce a hairs-width, fine straight line of black ink dead center along the length of the fret.

The convex file I use doesn't produce any faceting so there is no touching up of the profile required after using it. This means I can file both sides of the fret at the same time to the final profile. It's very fast.

One point about convex files to keep in mind is that at least some of them come in different degrees of curvature to accommodate different fret widths. If you use a file intended for wide frets on a narrow fret, I think it would be hard to get good results.

Anyway, different strokes....

[Sam VanLaningham]

Originally Posted by Rodger Knox

You can put it in the hole in your wallet.

Hahahaha good one, Rodger! It would be nice if they were more like $40.

[David Farmer]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Triangular frets are, or should be, the way forward IMO. Entrenched conservatism will however ensure that only the enlightened few will ever perceive and experience the benefit.

If anybody can explain the benefit in having a mass of material bulging out on both sides between the apex and the base of the fret, compared to a triangular profile with a thin rounded apex, I would be delighted to hear it.

And just before anybody says that the triangular fret wears quicker ...it doesn't. (Voice of experience ... not of theory).

What is the point of using wide wire and then reconfiguring it to mimic narrow wire? If the triangular profile ends with a "thin rounded profile" why not start there?
What I would like to see is a diamond crowning file that has a smaller radius. The StewMac diamond file I have used for years, has a narrow width side with about a 1/16" radius. That fits wire to .125" wide. A file with a .040" radius for example would work much better on smaller wire. I almost never use the wider side.

[Dan of SC]

Sometimes StewMac reminds me of the way Sears was years ago, always coming up with some gizmo tool new and improved that turned out to be a little screwy.

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Triangular frets are, or should be, the way forward IMO.

Sure..

Steve

[murrmac123]

Actually, in an ideal world, guitar frets would look like the one on the left in this pic, with the width being four (or more) times the height ... the technical manufacturing difficulties would unfortunately prevent them from ever being made like this.

What is the point of using wide wire and then reconfiguring it to mimic narrow wire?

The reason is to make a much slicker feel for the fingertips on the fretboard. You must have come across guitars with Petillo frets ... don't you agree they play much nicer than standard frets?

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by Left of Sam

Thx for the post, murrmac. I am definitely a fan of a v-shaped fret. The plek machines make a more v-shaped fret. My Santa Cruz was originally un-pleked (before they were using plek technology I think) and then went in for new bridge warranty repair and came back pleked. The intonation is stunningly good. It may be just as much About the whole fretboard scan etc that plek does, but indeed the frets are pretty v-shaped. So when I'm ready to spend the money id prefer this tool as well!

But geez, how will I ever find enough room in my space-limited shop for it.... What it must be like 6" long and at least 3/8" tall, if not more! Not to mention the width. Wherever will I find such a space!

Sam

They reshaped your frets without asking you first when it was in for an unrelated repair?

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Actually, in an ideal world, guitar frets would look like the one on the left in this pic, with the width being four (or more) times the height

Could you please explain why this would be ideal?