Martin D-16 with LR Baggs Anthem SL

[Marty C]

Hi Guys,
Need some help. I put this LR Baggs Anthem SL in my Martin D-16 and it just seems too heavy in the midrange. I had the same issue with the previous K & K, which is why I changed. My guitar unplugged doesn't seem to have this, but plugged in to any system seems too heavy in the mids. It's a beautiful sounding guitar and I hate to continually add heavy EQ to make this work.

Any ideas on why this might be happening? It doesn't matter what I play through, the midrange still comes through heavy.

[jonfields45]

Have you tried turning up the mic with the adjustment screw?

[rokdog49]

It seems odd that the guitar, when amplified, exhibits the same characteristics with two completely different pick up systems. Hey, anything is possible.
If you do adjust the microphone, you should be able to dial in more treble.
As previously suggested, go with that.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Hi Guys,
Need some help. I put this LR Baggs Anthem SL in my Martin D-16 and it just seems too heavy in the midrange. I had the same issue with the previous K & K, which is why I changed. My guitar unplugged doesn't seem to have this, but plugged in to any system seems too heavy in the mids. It's a beautiful sounding guitar and I hate to continually add heavy EQ to make this work.

Any ideas on why this might be happening? It doesn't matter what I play through, the midrange still comes through heavy.

I have the Anthem SL in a cedar/mahogany OM and it took me a whole lot of experimentation to get it dialed in to my satisfaction.

The first thing to do, of course, is adjust the mic level to find the best balance you can get. After that it helps to tweak it with a good EQ. I like my Zoom A3's EQ because I can put a six band digital graphic EQ in series with a two band digital parametric EQ. In addition to those EQs, the A3 also has a manual three band EQ for "quick and dirty" adjustments at the gig.

In any event, a good EQ device helps. My suspicion about the Anthem SL system is that it tends to provide an overly strong signal around the crossover frequency of 250 Hz because both the UST and the mic are contributing to the signal at that point. Whether or not the theory is correct, cutting in that area definitely helps with my particular rig.

I recall that a year or two ago a player borrowed my Anthem SL-equipped guitar for an amplified set and one of his friends told him that it sounded better (amplified) than the player's own multi-thousand dollar Aura guitar. That little OM only cost me around $250 off ebay, so I credit a well EQed Anthem SL for making the difference.

[Marty C]

Thanks for your replies. I have adjusted the mic screw many times. I have not yet reached that optimum tone. It can help with the mids a little, but then it gets very bright and the sound of the pick against the strings is too pronounced. Its almost like the Presence needs to adjusted lower.

Guitaniac, I think you may be on to something with the crossover. I think I should have gotten the full Anthem. I have a mic/ust setting

I do have the Zoom A3 and haven't used it much. I will dig it out and give both those EQ settings a trial.

I was hoping to just plug in straight to my Bose S1 Pro, but I can't seem to take the mids enough.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Thanks for your replies. I have adjusted the mic screw many times. I have not yet reached that optimum tone. It can help with the mids a little, but then it gets very bright and the sound of the pick against the strings is too pronounced. Its almost like the Presence needs to adjusted lower.

Guitaniac, I think you may be on to something with the crossover. I think I should have gotten the full Anthem. I have a mic/ust setting

I do have the Zoom A3 and haven't used it much. I will dig it out and give both those EQ settings a trial.

I was hoping to just plug in straight to my Bose S1 Pro, but I can't seem to take the mids enough.

Try installing the tru-mic either behind the bridge pins/saddle or along the bracing on the treble side of the saddle. These are two alternate positions that Lr Baggs recommends. If you search them, you can find a diagram. I too found the tru-mic to be just too honky and twangy. I am going to try these positions to see if they help. Someone did a comparison of all three positions with the Lyric and the results were considerably better when the position was behind the saddle.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Thanks for your replies. I have adjusted the mic screw many times. I have not yet reached that optimum tone. It can help with the mids a little, but then it gets very bright and the sound of the pick against the strings is too pronounced. Its almost like the Presence needs to adjusted lower.

Guitaniac, I think you may be on to something with the crossover. I think I should have gotten the full Anthem. I have a mic/ust setting

I do have the Zoom A3 and haven't used it much. I will dig it out and give both those EQ settings a trial.

I was hoping to just plug in straight to my Bose S1 Pro, but I can't seem to take the mids enough.

I'm curious. Have you tried using the S1 already and found this issue to be the case? My reason for asking is I borrowed my friend's S-1 to try out and could not get the LR Baggs VTS pickup in it to sound good. It was fine with my D18 with the JJB's and this is running both guitars through a Fire-eye twin preamp.
The Baggs pickup sounded harsh and brittle. Did not have that problem with my Fishman Loudbox Mini.

[guitaniac]

Here are the Zoom A3 EQ settings which I use for my cedar-mahogany OM/Anthem SL rig. You'll likely need somewhat different settings for your particular rig, but this might give you some ideas. Keep in mind that I first set the Tru Mic level for the best balance that I can get without EQ adjustments.

EFX box #1 (various guitar models) - turned off


EFX box #2 - parametric EQ - turned on

80Hz, Q=1, -2db

1.2KHz, Q=1, -3db

efx level at 100


EFX box #3 - graphic EQ - turned on

160Hz, -6db

400Hz, -3db

800Hz, 0db

3.2KHz, -1db

6.4Hz, -4db

12KHz, -1db

efx level at 100


Be sure to have the "balance" knob turned fully clockwise to the full "wet" setting.

Regarding the manual three band EQ, I keep that flat unless I need a "quick and dirty" adjustment at the gig.

A nice thing about the Zoom A3 is that it allows the user to store multiple programs (up to 20) for multiple guitar/pickup rigs. A big downside is that its pretty complicated and has a steep learning curve. (Zoom must have gotten a lot of negative feedback on that, because their next preamps were simpler and more user-friendly.)

Its worth noting that I can approximate the A3 settings sufficiently well with a Boss GE-7 if I accidentally leave the A3 at home. I've had to do that on at least one occasion.

A general analysis of these EQ settings shows that the biggest adjustments were to cut excessive low mids (in the general area of the Anthem SL's crossover frequency of 250Hz). I also made a pretty healthy cut (-4db at 6.4KHz) to reduce some harshness in the mic tone.

[Marty C]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I'm curious. Have you tried using the S1 already and found this issue to be the case? My reason for asking is I borrowed my friend's S-1 to try out and could not get the LR Baggs VTS pickup in it to sound good. It was fine with my D18 with the JJB's and this is running both guitars through a Fire-eye twin preamp.
The Baggs pickup sounded harsh and brittle. Did not have that problem with my Fishman Loudbox Mini.

Yes I tried direct and just couldn’t seem to adjust it to my liking.

I tried using a LR Baggs Para DI but struggled to get the results I was looking for. I wanted to go direct and get an acceptable sound. I can do this for vocals. But for guitars, I just can’t seem to dial it in.

I did adjust the screw more toward the mic than I ever had it and it is improved. But not using either tone match. I can use my TC Helicon Play Acoustic to get an acceptable tone, but I thought this Anthem SL would allow me to avoid all the signal processing and EQ adjustments.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I will keep working.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Yes I tried direct and just couldn’t seem to adjust it to my liking.

I tried using a LR Baggs Para DI but struggled to get the results I was looking for. I wanted to go direct and get an acceptable sound. I can do this for vocals. But for guitars, I just can’t seem to dial it in.

I did adjust the screw more toward the mic than I ever had it and it is improved. But not using either tone match. I can use my TC Helicon Play Acoustic to get an acceptable tone, but I thought this Anthem SL would allow me to avoid all the signal processing and EQ adjustments.

Thanks for all your suggestions. I will keep working.

If there is anything I've learned, what we want and what we can get are sometimes just not as simple as we would hope. It's frustrating when you shell out good coin and it ain't happening. Most of us will say, "been there, done that."
I will offer that the Anthem SL is one of the better pickups on the market. Apparently it isn't what you hoped for and that's a shame.
Good luck and I hope you can get things the way you want them.

[Marty C]

Thanks to you guys for all your advice. I took a little from each.

1. Worked on the adjustment screw with guitar plugged directly into my Bose S1 Pro. Moved the anthem SL adjustment more toward the mic, much further than ever before.
2. Adjusted the EQ on the S1 Pro to my liking. Not bad with no tone match used.
3. Used the Zoom A3 for only EQ with the para EQ. Mainly some cuts in the mids.
4. Made Minor adjustments in the 3 band on the face of the Zoom A3.

Now it sounds great. Funny thing is, I have 3 different guitars I plugged into this set up and all I need is a little adjustment with EQ on the face of the Zoom A3 and they all sound good.

Must be the room or the Bose I am getting used to that all my guitars need the similar settings. Or maybe that they all are mohogany with spruce tops. Funny that all the guitars have different pickups. Could be what my ears like to hear.

Thanks again.

[guitaniac]

As I mentioned before, one of the nice things about using the A3 for EQ is that you can create a dedicated program for each of your guitar/pickup rigs, and you'll still have the manual 3 band EQ available for any "quick and dirty" adjustments needed at the gig.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I'm curious. Have you tried using the S1 already and found this issue to be the case? My reason for asking is I borrowed my friend's S-1 to try out and could not get the LR Baggs VTS pickup in it to sound good. It was fine with my D18 with the JJB's and this is running both guitars through a Fire-eye twin preamp.
The Baggs pickup sounded harsh and brittle. Did not have that problem with my Fishman Loudbox Mini.

I know the answer. The S1 pro has a nasty mid with some guitars. Make sure you use the guitar voice switch. If it’s still bad increase the bass and treble in unison which will effectively remove some mids. The other option is to buy a different speaker.

[Marty C]

Just an update since I had some time to play around this weekend. I took the same cuts/adjustments I made with the Zoom A3 and transferred then to the Play Acoustic. I removed any compression and just used the parametric EQ. Was able to get a better tone.

Unplugged my guitar D-16 with Anthem SL and plugged in a lower end guitar (Martin GSPRS1) with a Fishman Sonitone pickup. Actually this guitar sounded much better.

Not sure if it's the pickup I don't like or maybe the guitar. I just can't seem to get this guitar sounding good plugged in. I will move the mic back further and try again . I think it is the string balance I am not liking. Could this be it? Maybe I am trying to turn a certain string down and not actually EQ?

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Marty C

Just an update since I had some time to play around this weekend. I took the same cuts/adjustments I made with the Zoom A3 and transferred then to the Play Acoustic. I removed any compression and just used the parametric EQ. Was able to get a better tone.

Unplugged my guitar D-16 with Anthem SL and plugged in a lower end guitar (Martin GSPRS1) with a Fishman Sonitone pickup. Actually this guitar sounded much better.

Not sure if it's the pickup I don't like or maybe the guitar. I just can't seem to get this guitar sounding good plugged in. I will move the mic back further and try again . I think it is the string balance I am not liking. Could this be it? Maybe I am trying to turn a certain string down and not actually EQ?

Every guitar/pickup pairing is its own "adventure". I'm sorry to hear that you're still frustrated with this one. Here's Aaron Short's report on another Baggs Element-based system which is similar but different in that it blends the full spectrum Element signal with a full spectrum mic signal. I bring it up because the Element UST would install in the exact same way as with your current system. It would be an easy swap.

https://youtu.be/MSQujy1u-3M