A strange question?

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by SJ VanSandt

Maybe stupid even, but I have an issue where I could use more expert help than I would likely get over on the general discussion board. Besides, it might require that I (gasp!) get a new guitar. Luthiers like those sort of solutions.

Here's the deal: I want a guitar that I can tune down a whole step, standard tuning but DGCFAD. I've tried it with all of my guitars and with different gauge strings, but the intonation always goes sour on me. I can do a half step with 25.4 scale without much problem, but not a whole step. I know some people do it without apparent problems, so maybe it's just me (or my guitars). But it seems to me that if you need a longer scale length for a baritone, tuned B to B, it stands to reason that a D to D guitar would need to be at least a little longer scale in order to intonate properly.

Am I totally in left field here? Could the intonation issues be addressed with just some adjustment to the saddle and nut, or should I suck it up and have a luthier build a 26" scale length guitar for me? Getting new ears is not an option.

Same reasons most people want lower pitched guitars - make songs easier to sing without transposing into awkward keys. My baritone capoed at the third fret doesn't cut it for me - not the baritone I currently own, anyway.

Any serious suggestions seriously entertained. Thanks for your time.

Stan

Sounds like you need a Baritone

[SJ VanSandt]

Originally Posted by cliff_the_stiff

Sounds like you need a Baritone

Been there, done that. Didn't like the sound or the scale length. But I have to confess, I didn't try medium gauge string tuned up to D. According to the figures IndianHillMike gave, that might have worked pretty well with the 27 2/3" scale of the two baritones I've owned, tension wise, but I would still have struggled with that scale length of the neck. What I did try was capoing at the third fret to get D standard. It didn't sound good to my ear.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Mediums instead of lights and a slightly (3/64") higher saddle should give you what you want on a 25.4" guitar. You guessed you're going sharper, but logic says you're going flatter. IMO, of course.

[Racerbob]

I have a custom built Tony Yamamoto which was specifically built for D to d with light strings. He called it the Jumbo 27. It has a baritone body which is wedged for comfort and a 27 inch scale. Feels like a much smaller guitar. It can be tuned up and down without any noticeable problems. Easily capo into higher keys without problems

Not sure how he did it but it works.

[Guitars44me]

I may be swimming against the stream here, but I notice no intonation problems on my 12 fret short scale John Kinnaird guitars, or on my long scale old Taylors either. These are all tuned DGCF#AD. Concert tuning down a whole step. Or to open D and variants.

All are set up perfectly though.

If you are sharp while fretting, perhaps you might be pushing the strings down harder than necessary, or bending slightly. If so we can blame the reduced tension. I do it a lot when playing electric with 9s and even 10s or 11s

Just a possibility I don't think anyone mentioned yet.

I believe a KILLER setup and paying lots of attention to fretting may render the problem moot (er). Mooter.... nice word I just invented

The good thing about my suggestions are you can start now, for free! Hahahaha

Best on this

Paul

[SJ VanSandt]

Hey all, I'm reviving this old thread, again, to bring you up to date on my continuing experiment in D standard tuning. I got a lot of excellent advise from various people and some of my experiments are bearing them out. I tried that Eastman dread with various gauges, including heavy, and got neither the string tension or sound I was looking for. I strung it up with some bluegrass PB and tuned it to E standard and it sounded fine - decent little guitar for not much money, but I have much better guitars for standard tuning so I sold it.



A couple of months later I found an old Stella for sale with a 26 1/2" scale and I ordered that. (Stay Gold Guitars in Santa Fe - check them out.) It came with extra light strings - 11s - tuned down to D. A nice sounding old guitar but the tension was too low so I put on 12s. The owner did not recommend mediums on a hundred year old ladder braced guitar, so I didn't try that. Still, the sound with lights was pretty good - not too muddy sounding or sloppy feeling, unlike 25.4 scale - and the longer scale was hardly noticeable. The fly in the ointment was the neck: thick as a fence post - so thick that my Shub capo just flies off, and even an Elliot style capo won't move up past the 4th fret. Plus, these ancient guitars did not have compensated bridges or saddles, so the intonation, while acceptable in first position gets progressively worse up the neck. So much for using it for all of my repertoire using a capo.



So things stood there for a while. I had shoulder surgery over the summer and couldn't play guitar at all so things just sat in their cases in the closet. Recently I decided I was recovered enough to continue the experiment (I could be wrong), so I bought an Ibanez baritone with a 27" scale length, replaced the strings with PB 12s and tuned it up to D, and now believe I'm on the right track. The guitar actually sounds much better tuned to D than it did tuned to B, and sounds much like what I was seeking. Best of all, the neck is quite playable and it stays in tune up the neck while using a capo. The tension is still a little slack and I plan to put mediums on it soon, but to tell the truth, 27" is a bit more of an adjustment than 26 1/2, so the slackness may be to my advantage for a few weeks.



The story doesn't end there - not yet. It turns out that big old jumbo body is a bit ouchy for my poorly repaired shoulder. Right now 15 minutes is my limit, so jams and sing-alongs are out. Darn! I'm so ready to come out of my Covid cave!