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  #46  
Old 11-25-2016, 06:30 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsone View Post
Nice.

What are you using for pore filler? and what finish are you putting on over the top of that?


Hey
I'm using a pore filler called "Aquacoat" that I got from LMII. It is a water based pore filler that seems to have done a nice job. There are some pretty good instructions on the site.
I'm going to spray it with a finish sprayer and air compressor using KTM -9 gloss. This is also a water based product that is "suppose" to be comparable to nitro, but I guess we will see.
I'm planning on a few initial coats tomorrow.
Here is the KTM

Here is the pore filler


I'm reading up on the process this evening as far as how to thin, how many coats and such.


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  #47  
Old 11-25-2016, 06:36 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
I just looked through the last page of this thread and have these thoughts.

I bind with plastic using wood purflings occasionally, but I use celluloid rather bolteron. Celluloid disolves in acetone nicely, by comparison, and if you run a brush loaded with acetone over it seconds before you put PVA glue on it the connection is much stronger that I would have guessed. Strong enough that the binding will be completely destroyed before it will peel off.

When I glue on my neck I use a caul on the fingerboard as well as one under the top and minor discrepancies such as yours appears to be are as nothing. Since you have chosen to fret after assembly, as I do, any irregularities in the playing surface are easily remedied.

Hi Bruce. Honestly, I didn't know I was ordering wood purlfings. I really thought it was plastic, however the wood was REALLY easy to work with, bent easily, and was easy to scrape flush.
I actually wasn't sure if I would be able to do it AND the plastic binding at once so I took 2 days and just taped up the purlfing first and did the binding the next day.
I'll try wood binding on the next instrument. Actually, doing the binding and purlfing has been my favorite part of this process! It's a huge boost when it comes flush!

My anxiety at this point is wondering about my neck joint. It will go in tight, but it doesn't take a lot to remove it really. Overall doing the dovetail has been a really great experience though. A little frustrating as a noob, but very educational IMO.

Hopefully I'll get some shots of the finish going on tomorrow morning should it be warm enough.


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  #48  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:09 PM
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No!

stop! Do not pass go!

I've had a lot of very bad experiences with ktm9 bubbling and blistering where skin touches it. Absolute nightmare. It's possible that it was the flow retarder added, or possibly the film itself, I'm not sure, I believe I had that issue with no retarder added as well, it's been a long time since those days.

KTM-SV, on the other hand, did not react that way, and was just as easy to apply and buff. Quite nice looking finish.

I'd really give the ktm9 a pass.
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  #49  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:31 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
No!

stop! Do not pass go!

I've had a lot of very bad experiences with ktm9 bubbling and blistering where skin touches it. Absolute nightmare. It's possible that it was the flow retarder added, or possibly the film itself, I'm not sure, I believe I had that issue with no retarder added as well, it's been a long time since those days.

KTM-SV, on the other hand, did not react that way, and was just as easy to apply and buff. Quite nice looking finish.

I'd really give the ktm9 a pass.
interesting ed,
I'm do a lot of looking on this. i THINK they changed the formula recently ... maybe to address this? I know LMII stopped carrying it a while.
Thanks for the input. I'll do research and wait on starting the finish tomorrow.
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  #50  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:36 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon/Tinker View Post
No!

stop! Do not pass go!

I've had a lot of very bad experiences with ktm9 bubbling and blistering where skin touches it. Absolute nightmare. It's possible that it was the flow retarder added, or possibly the film itself, I'm not sure, I believe I had that issue with no retarder added as well, it's been a long time since those days.

KTM-SV, on the other hand, did not react that way, and was just as easy to apply and buff. Quite nice looking finish.

I'd really give the ktm9 a pass.
may i ask what kid of pore filler you used under the KTM? As well as what kind of thinning agent? Ive read simple denatured alcohol
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  #51  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:43 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Also, are there other water based finishes out there? I really don't have a decent place to get into Niro type stuff...


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  #52  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:57 PM
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Some people swear by EM6000, but I've never tried it.

I was using epoxy as porefill, and dabbling with CA as well.

I have keen interest in a product called Royal-Lac, basically a modified shellac, but I've yet to try it, no time for it.

Again, if you are determined to spray waterborne, ktm-sv is ok.

But I'd consider perhaps brushing on a varnish or something. Really, the finish step sucks.
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  #53  
Old 11-25-2016, 10:59 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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I recently used Target products for the first time with mixed results. Their waterbased shellac has a distinct amber color to it that is not what I was looking for. It has a very low viscosity, like water, and can only be sprayed in very, very light coats else it runs. Sprayed in light coats, it applies fine.

I sprayed EM7000, their high-build waterbased finish. It would not adhere properly, despite a variety of test conditions/combinations. I'd had it for a while, though unopened. They no longer list it on their website and appears to be discontinued.

I switched to Target's waterbased sealer and EM6000. Both worked adequately, though I did find that the EM6000 does leave witness marks when you sand through it - I found it doesn't fully melt the previously applied layers, despite the manufacturer's claims. (That inability has been an issue in previous waterbased finishes.) It does buff to a good shine, though I found it took a full two weeks to cure sufficiently, beyond the 150 hours stated by the manufacturer. Overall, I found the finish "OK". It isn't nitrocellulose lacquer, but it also doesn't come with the hazards nitro does.

My tests with Royal Lac so far have been good and I'm part way through French polishing a guitar with it. It appears to be viable option.
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  #54  
Old 11-25-2016, 11:09 PM
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well, in reading a bit about the less than stellar results with H20based products I may just man up and figure how to do nitro. I have the space available.
I guess I just wanted the easy way out, and well... we all know what the easy way out leads to most of the time (going back and doing it right haha).
Something for me to think about.

Again, thanks for all the input folks.
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  #55  
Old 11-25-2016, 11:13 PM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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Looking back I said I don't have a place, I mean.... Facility ...
Perhaps I can remedy that in the name of future instruments


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  #56  
Old 11-25-2016, 11:30 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowManSnow View Post
I may just man up and figure how to do nitro.
I started out with nitro. I would never go back to it. It was no picnic on a variety of fronts.

One of the things I should have mentioned is that Target products have nearly no smell during application or thereafter. Applied with an HVLP setup it is pretty benign. That is not the case with nitro.

For me, it is a case of "manning up" to figure out how to do non-nitro finishes. Now, there are many finishes from which to choose and, now that buyers/players don't demand that the only acceptable finish is a mirror gloss lacquer, a variety of application methods. Unless one is planning on high-volume finishing or running a finish repair business, I'd look to more benign finishes and methods.
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  #57  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
I started out with nitro. I would never go back to it. It was no picnic on a variety of fronts.

One of the things I should have mentioned is that Target products have nearly no smell during application or thereafter. Applied with an HVLP setup it is pretty benign. That is not the case with nitro.

For me, it is a case of "manning up" to figure out how to do non-nitro finishes. Now, there are many finishes from which to choose and, now that buyers/players don't demand that the only acceptable finish is a mirror gloss lacquer, a variety of application methods. Unless one is planning on high-volume finishing or running a finish repair business, I'd look to more benign finishes and methods.
so... in your opinion.. what are the best options for a good gloss if one doesn't set up an HVLP area?

it is quite confusing for a noob like myself to know what is good and what is a waste of time and money. Seems everyone has favorites, which makes sense. One thing I have learned strait away is that there are a LOT of ways to do things, and everyone has their favorite.

I do plan on making more guitars, but I DON'T plan on any sort of volume, id quickly run out of room in my man cave haha.

I have considered a brush on option also, but I like the idea of spraying because it seems i would be able to get much thinner coats on.
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  #58  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:23 AM
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I'm afraid there's no real good answer. Every method of applying finish has its pitfalls and drawbacks.

And don't think that spraying waterborne finishes requires any less safety protection from a PPE perspective. They're just not flammable. They might not stink as bad as a solvent based format, but you still need to protect yourself.

you might consider a knock down spray booth...
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  #59  
Old 11-26-2016, 10:32 AM
SnowManSnow SnowManSnow is offline
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I was REALLY wanting the KTM to work:/ I do see people w success, but without really knowing combination of products they used its kinda a shot in the dark. I was hoping that by using a water based filler it would aid in the final finishing too.



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  #60  
Old 11-26-2016, 12:53 PM
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I found epoxy to be the easiest porefill (so far) and it still sucks to do.

If you want to use a waterborne, try the KTM-SV. Went on just as easily as the 9, with none of the bad side effects. 6 yrs later it's still shrinking, like a nitro...
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