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  #1  
Old 02-14-2019, 04:49 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is offline
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Default Recommended pickup system / Tonedexter

I am interested in trying a Tonedexter. I see K&K mini mentioned alot as a pickup and they don't cost very much. I have one in a Collings, works fine. Does it work with Tonedexter? If not, what is a good pickup? It would be dreadnaught guitar. I dunno if a specific model matters. One that needs a pickup is a J45 Gibson 1960s J45 Ebony VOS Acoustic Adjustable Bridge. Handsome black and white guitar.

Also, is the Tonedexter all you need or do you need a preamp?
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:17 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
I am interested in trying a Tonedexter. I see K&K mini mentioned alot as a pickup and they don't cost very much. I have one in a Collings, works fine. Does it work with Tonedexter? If not, what is a good pickup? It would be dreadnaught guitar. I dunno if a specific model matters. One that needs a pickup is a J45 Gibson 1960s J45 Ebony VOS Acoustic Adjustable Bridge. Handsome black and white guitar.

Also, is the Tonedexter all you need or do you need a preamp?
The Tonedexter is a very good preamp/DI so you shouldn't need anything else unless you want more eq options. As for pickups, the K&K would be a great choice and it tends to be the system that I see demoed the most with the Tonedexter online. However, any SBT or UST would be good. I would just avoid magnetic pickups and dual source systems. They might still work but I haven't read as many positive results.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:50 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Tonedexter is certainly a game changer and arguably the best preamp out there right now. I agree with Petty avoid magnetic and dual source systems as they typically aren't compatible. I would also caution you to avoid pickups that will impact the unplugged tone of your guitar unless that doesn't bother you. K&K is certainly a good choice or you could try JJB basically the same as k&k but way cheaper. If you would like a pickup that would also sound good for those days that you won't be using the Tonedexter Schatten HFN is the best and most natural sounding pickup that I personally heard.
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:05 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is offline
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What about an L R Baggs Lyric system? I have a new one from a few years back that I did not install. I think it will use a battery?

I believe it has two pickup types in the system? EDIT: No, I think it is one, a unique under saddle mic that is supposed to improve sound over piezo.

Does active or passive matter with Tonedexter?
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Last edited by LiveMusic; 02-14-2019 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:15 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
What about an L R Baggs Lyric system? I have a new one from a few years back that I did not install. I think it will use a battery? I believe it has two pickup types in the system?

Does active or passive matter with Tonedexter?
Active or passive does not matter. The lyric is listed under their "pickups that can work with caveats" section. There have been reports of success but is generally not a recommended pickup for tonedexter.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:09 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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I've just put a Fishman Matrix Infinity (wide format) into a Crafter dread and trained the TD (not very diligently) with a '57 and a Lewitt dynamic that I had to hand. I'm planning to break out the mics box tomorrow and do a more serious test but, for now, the Fishman/Lewitt/TD sounds very impressive.

Simple fit for the pickup too.
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:35 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
I've just put a Fishman Matrix Infinity (wide format) into a Crafter dread and trained the TD (not very diligently) with a '57 and a Lewitt dynamic that I had to hand. I'm planning to break out the mics box tomorrow and do a more serious test but, for now, the Fishman/Lewitt/TD sounds very impressive.

Simple fit for the pickup too.
Congrats on the ToneDexter/Matrix matchup. You're doing something that's roughly equivalent to making your own custom Aura sound images for your guitar/Matrix rig. There was a time when a player had to pay $300 and ship off his/her guitar to Fishman for a few weeks to have that done. And of course, the player also had to buy an Aura Spectrum DI to use those custom sound images.

ToneDexter is a wonder. Have fun experimenting with training mics and mic positions.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:09 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
Congrats on the ToneDexter/Matrix matchup. You're doing something that's roughly equivalent to making your own custom Aura sound images for your guitar/Matrix rig. There was a time when a player had to pay $300 and ship off his/her guitar to Fishman for a few weeks to have that done. And of course, the player also had to buy an Aura Spectrum DI to use those custom sound images.

ToneDexter is a wonder. Have fun experimenting with training mics and mic positions.
Thanks for that.

I'm actually a long time Aura user, the original Aura Blender in a Boss floor case with a Boss ge7 for matching my guitar/mandola and a Zoom A-something for a bit of 'verby chorus from time to time.

Magic combination.

I was tempted to the Yamaha side when I saw an AG Stomp for cheap and thought I'd give it a go. Two very different systems, both with very pleasing results. I never worked out which I preferred.

When the TD came along I naturally have to buy one because I am a fool. I am however a happy fool making lots of noise and having a great deal of fun with mics.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:18 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Thanks for that.

I'm actually a long time Aura user, the original Aura Blender in a Boss floor case with a Boss ge7 for matching my guitar/mandola and a Zoom A-something for a bit of 'verby chorus from time to time.

Magic combination.

I was tempted to the Yamaha side when I saw an AG Stomp for cheap and thought I'd give it a go. Two very different systems, both with very pleasing results. I never worked out which I preferred.

When the TD came along I naturally have to buy one because I am a fool. I am however a happy fool making lots of noise and having a great deal of fun with mics.
I originally learned about Aura sound imaging from Harvey Reid, one of the original Aura beta testers. Harvey maintained that one would have to get very, very lucky with a stock sound image to get results as good as can be had with custom Aura sound images. Its a wonderful thing, therefore, that ToneDexter WaveMaps are roughly equivalent to custom Aura sound images, and that TD users are free to experiment at their leisure to find the most flattering WaveMap possible for a particular guitar/pickup rig.

I personally believe its possible to find a flattering WaveMap which can produce better amplified results than actually miking the guitar in a moderate volume performance setting. I believe that's possible because the best mic position for obtaining the most pleasing WaveMap may not be a practical mic position for miking a live performance.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:11 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I personally believe its possible to find a flattering WaveMap which can produce better amplified results than actually miking the guitar in a moderate volume performance setting. I believe that's possible because the best mic position for obtaining the most pleasing WaveMap may not be a practical mic position for miking a live performance.
I totally agree. With the freedom to create your own wavemap with whatever mic positions you choose opens up endless possibilities. One feature I hope to see them implement in a future firmware update is to have all wavemaps you create behave like the slot 22 wavemap and have the frequency rolloff that happens at the end of training moved to the character knob instead. I don't know how else to word that so hopefully it's not confusing and can at least get the point across.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:56 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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As long as the pickup will work with the Tonedexter, it doesn't matter much. I'd say to get something that sounds decent on its own in case you need to plug in and play somewhere without the Tonedexter.

For me, I'm in the process of installing the Schatten HFN in all three of my gigging guitars. It's relatively ($111) inexpensive, non invasive, sounds great on its own, and works well with the Tonedexter.
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  #12  
Old 02-15-2019, 06:35 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
...one would have to get very, very lucky with a stock sound image to get results as good as can be had with custom Aura sound images.
I stuck a load of images in the Aura then just kept swapping and changing between gigs til I found something that felt natural and musical. Not necessarily the most lifelike representation of mic/instrument because even the most perfect m/i recreation might not be appropriate for the band.

Creative choices, not copy/paste.

Quote:
I personally believe its possible to find a flattering WaveMap which can produce better amplified results than actually miking the guitar in a moderate volume performance setting. I believe that's possible because the best mic position for obtaining the most pleasing WaveMap may not be a practical mic position for miking a live performance.
Similar situation.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:46 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
I am interested in trying a Tonedexter. I see K&K mini mentioned alot as a pickup and they don't cost very much. I have one in a Collings, works fine. Does it work with Tonedexter? If not, what is a good pickup? It would be dreadnaught guitar. I dunno if a specific model matters. One that needs a pickup is a J45 Gibson 1960s J45 Ebony VOS Acoustic Adjustable Bridge. Handsome black and white guitar.

Also, is the Tonedexter all you need or do you need a preamp?
Gibson used to put the Trance Amulet M (designated by Gibson differently) in a few of their higher-end models and I've had consistently good results with it in several installs in different brands of guitars. It works well with the Tonedexter.
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Taylor 618e
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Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
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Last edited by SpruceTop; 12-30-2021 at 06:57 AM.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:44 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
I am interested in trying a Tonedexter. I see K&K mini mentioned alot as a pickup and they don't cost very much. I have one in a Collings, works fine. Does it work with Tonedexter? If not, what is a good pickup? It would be dreadnaught guitar. I dunno if a specific model matters. One that needs a pickup is a J45 Gibson 1960s J45 Ebony VOS Acoustic Adjustable Bridge. Handsome black and white guitar.

Also, is the Tonedexter all you need or do you need a preamp?
I have a K&K in my HD-28V and it works very well with the ToneDexter. If I were to do it again, however, I would likely install James May's Ultra Tonic pickup (http://jamesmayengineering.com/). I might install his K&K conversion kit one of these days.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2019, 06:33 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phcorrigan View Post
I have a K&K in my HD-28V and it works very well with the ToneDexter. If I were to do it again, however, I would likely install James May's Ultra Tonic pickup (http://jamesmayengineering.com/). I might install his K&K conversion kit one of these days.
That's a fairly pricey option, but judging from Aero's report, its an excellent option for the folks who need better feedback rejection than a typical SBT can deliver. You get the top responsiveness of a Pure Mini with better feedback rejection.
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