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  #1  
Old 12-14-2010, 10:01 AM
Battleman Battleman is offline
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Default Pro's and con's to building a guitar kit

Pro's and con's to building a guitar kit????
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:07 AM
Laurent Brondel Laurent Brondel is offline
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Pros: if you are patient, into building things and music, it's a wonderful experience, even if there is no guarantee the first try will be a success. You'll have something to be proud of to play, hear and show.

Cons: don't even think you're going to save money as the kit, tools, jigs and so on can rapidly exceed the cost of buying an excellent utility instrument. It's possible to build a kit with absolutely minimal tooling, but it has to be compensated by skills and/or talent. Lack of success for some difficult operations can lead to a lot of head scratching, depressive thoughts and even defeatism. That's when you know it has become an obsession. As said before nothing guarantees that the first try will be stellar, although it is certainly possible. Lastly, I don't know if it's a con or a pro, but it's a hobby that can rapidly become addictive, and the first one done will lead to the desire to buy wood for the second one. And so on.
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:17 AM
Battleman Battleman is offline
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Thank you for the responce....First i have never built a guitar. Second, i have built tables and chairs and few other things.....So, im stuck on getting all the supplies foraguitar thats been prefab...Our just starting from scratch and making molds and going that way...Its a lot to think about, for sure....I been hanging out with a luthier thats make lutars for the past couple years and been watching carefully, how he starts and ends his final product.

Again...im going to do, one or the other...maybe ill wait after the holidays are over and see which road i take...Cheers, michael
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:14 PM
mmapags mmapags is offline
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Pros are that it is way fun and, if you buy from a small shop, you get a built in mentor to help you through. You will make mistakes but usually nothing fatal. Also, It is expremely rewarding. I'm almost done with my first and about to begin a second.

Cons, it is addictive, and it's also time consuming. You will not save any money on your first. The kit will be around $500 but you'll spend about that on tools and stuff depending on how well your shop is set up now.

That all being said, once you've bought the tools (or if you have most of them) you build a better guitar from better materials than you could buy for $500 by far. I wouldn't do it to save money. I'd do it to make my guitar and know it was my hands that did it. Do it for the experience not to save money. When you factor in the value of your time, roughly 80 hours on the first one, you won't save money.

Have you visited the kit guitar forum? Some good info there. I bought my 2 kits from John Hall at Blues Creek and he's been great at mentoring me through, as I call it "the good, the bad and the ugly". Provides great kits with excellent materials and lots of expertise to help you through as a newbie. He himself has built 115 instruments so I guess he knows his stuff!
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:49 PM
naccoachbob naccoachbob is offline
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Solo, if you're asking about pros and cons as opposed to scratch building, there are several.
Kits, serviced, can save time and money spent in the tooling required to bend sides, thickness lumber, and other expensive operations. (Not sure that's really valid on the neck shaping - but cutting and scarfing the neck might require a pricey tool). The fret channels are cut, f/b radiused.
All the parts are together and should be compatible - the rosette channels might be already cut and the rosettes should fit with little effort.
Your cost in tools, jigs, etc., will probably be the same as a kit, as was noted by mmapags. But doing from scratch will require a greater investment.
I've built 2 and am on a 3rd kit. I'm looking to buy a side bending machine, so I'm getting closer to scratch building even though still a long way off.
Cons....... kits are limited in some respects. The type of guitar you can build and materials come to mind (even though LMI has a kit wizard which looks like fun).
I haven't been able economically to "tool up" to do scratch work. And there are some procedures I'd rather someone else did right now. Might change my mind later though.
Some kits, specifically Martin's come with second rate materials to some degree. But John Hall at Blues Creek Guitars, Ken at Kenneth Michaels Guitars, LMI, and Stew-mac, provide very good wood and other parts. I've bought things from all of them and never been dissatisfied.
And my first guitar sounds really nice to me. The 2nd is awaiting final buffing before it can be strung, and like I said, the 3rd is just starting.
It is addictive. And I'm having a blast.
Good luck in whichever way you go.
Bob
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:59 AM
Battleman Battleman is offline
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Thanks Bob, will proly go with a kit first, like you are doing and progress from there....
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:43 AM
SCGib68 SCGib68 is offline
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When I first started this journey into building and asked a similar question I would guess that the recommendation from the professionals went about 80% recommending kits and 20% recommending scratch. Here's my take after a little over a year and going the scratch route.

$10k. If you tool up to get a good/decent bandsaw, drum sander, dust collection, router(s), jigs, materials from wood to tuners, hand tools including basic chisels, nut files, sanding beams, sandpaper of varying grit and japanese saws, templates, glues etc etc. then $10,000.00 to build your first guitar or two is going to be pretty close. Go for some of the less expensive models and build some of the jigs yourself (ie: Bender, binding jig etc) and you can cut that maybe in half. I've got 2 full builds going, have back and sides for 4 others available, tops for 2 others available, and a couple neck blanks etc, purchased a good bandsaw new and most of my other power tools used and still don't have nut files, reamers, dust collection, binding jig and a wealth of other small or miscellaneous items not to mention I think my 1 3/4 hp Skil router and it's accompanying table are total P.O.S and just can't justify spending $500-$1,200 to upgrade those at this time. I'm over $5,000 deep so far and not even done with my first. If my financial situation allows I'm sure in the next 24 months I'll be over the $10k amount and still be spending money forever on wood. One note to that is I'm planning on not building one or two, but 50+ in my lifetime so I am acquiring items with the long term view. And I've got literally THOUSANDS of hours of reading and research in the past 18 months on scratch building.

So to sum all that up, if I was going to build 1 or 2 guitars, a kit is WAY cheaper than scratch. The kit manufacturers also have some fantastic help in the form of instruction and pre-servicing in a variety of ways that make kit building more cost effective and less painful than a scratch build. Even a kit won't be cheaper than just plunking down XXX-XXXX for a decent guitar, but for those who are doing it for the journey, I'd highly recommend a kit or two to see if this is something you're really passionate about for the long run. Again, if you're looking to save money, go buy a nice guitar. If you want to try building, start with a kit and find out just how much you enjoy or don't enjoy the process. Hope this helps some!
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:30 AM
joeybagadonutz joeybagadonutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGib68 View Post
When I first started this journey into building and asked a similar question I would guess that the recommendation from the professionals went about 80% recommending kits and 20% recommending scratch. Here's my take after a little over a year and going the scratch route.

$10k. If you tool up to get a good/decent bandsaw, drum sander, dust collection, router(s), jigs, materials from wood to tuners, hand tools including basic chisels, nut files, sanding beams, sandpaper of varying grit and japanese saws, templates, glues etc etc. then $10,000.00 to build your first guitar or two is going to be pretty close. Go for some of the less expensive models and build some of the jigs yourself (ie: Bender, binding jig etc) and you can cut that maybe in half. I've got 2 full builds going, have back and sides for 4 others available, tops for 2 others available, and a couple neck blanks etc, purchased a good bandsaw new and most of my other power tools used and still don't have nut files, reamers, dust collection, binding jig and a wealth of other small or miscellaneous items not to mention I think my 1 3/4 hp Skil router and it's accompanying table are total P.O.S and just can't justify spending $500-$1,200 to upgrade those at this time. I'm over $5,000 deep so far and not even done with my first. If my financial situation allows I'm sure in the next 24 months I'll be over the $10k amount and still be spending money forever on wood. One note to that is I'm planning on not building one or two, but 50+ in my lifetime so I am acquiring items with the long term view. And I've got literally THOUSANDS of hours of reading and research in the past 18 months on scratch building.

So to sum all that up, if I was going to build 1 or 2 guitars, a kit is WAY cheaper than scratch. The kit manufacturers also have some fantastic help in the form of instruction and pre-servicing in a variety of ways that make kit building more cost effective and less painful than a scratch build. Even a kit won't be cheaper than just plunking down XXX-XXXX for a decent guitar, but for those who are doing it for the journey, I'd highly recommend a kit or two to see if this is something you're really passionate about for the long run. Again, if you're looking to save money, go buy a nice guitar. If you want to try building, start with a kit and find out just how much you enjoy or don't enjoy the process. Hope this helps some!
What he said.

I'm in for closer to 20K though, and I don't regret spending a single dime of it. A lot of my money is tied up in wood (a lot of billets) though, as I hope to defray some of these costs if I can by milling my own sets and selling off some of the excess. I'm close to finishing my first and it has been one of the most challenging/fulfilling endeavors I've ever taken on. I have way more wood than I will ever use, but the good thing about this is that it often does better than stocks over time.

Good luck
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:20 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Ive built both scratch and kit. Definately go kit your first time to find out what you are doing. And get it from a guy you can talk to on the ph about what to do like Blues Creek. Ive loved learning about guitars and how to build. My investment is waaaaaay less than what was quoted above but Im a get by kind of guy. For ex I built my own bender for the wood. If you want details on the minimum of what you would need email me. Ill be glad to help you.
Heres the wisdom from my experiences: dont do it for a guitar.
Do it for the experience if you do it, otherwise you are likely to be disapointed. The cards are stacked against you, thats a fact. Its a lot harder than you might think.
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:02 AM
mmapags mmapags is offline
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Mercy I was with you on everything you said until "don't do it for a guitar". I'm about to finish my first and start my second and I can tell you that, while it isn't perfect, the guitar is d**med good looking and based on the nice tap tones from the top, I'm looking forward to playing it. So I'd modify what you said with "don't do it for a perfect guitar cosmetically first time". I'd say my first is about 90% good cosmetically and better than that sonically. Having a mentor like John definitly made a big difference in helping that to happen.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:00 AM
naccoachbob naccoachbob is offline
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Mercy, I'll have to agree with mmapags on that. My 1st is a pretty nice sounding guitar. Plays well, as I learned to set the action somewhat well. And I've replaced the nut and saddle, getting closer to a very good action.
I made mistakes, and it's overbuilt a little, but it really does sound pretty good.
Is it worth the materials, tools, time? Probably not, but I'm not really disappointed in it.
It was done for the experience, like you said. And turned out a good experience, so good that I'm on my 3rd now with the 2nd's finish almost cured.
Can't wait to start the 4th.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:53 AM
TomDl TomDl is offline
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I think it is one of those things where if you think you should, then you probably should. I had 20 plus years of woodworking with hand and power tools when I turned to my first guitar, and was just starting to feel like I actually got it. I could do anything freehand, and had a shop full of tools of all sorts. The only part of building a guitar that I found a challenge was the sides, and I used a bender for that. (I'm talking here about the mechanics of putting a guitar together from raw wood. Lutherie itself is a lifetime challenge...)

So it is always hard to know where someone else is coming from. After 40 years of woodworking, I don't know any longer what is or isn't easy. There are things I find out every day, but what was the required base to find an easier way to do something. If you feel you want to make a kit, and that you would be proud of the result when it turns out, then it is worth it.

My first big woodworking project, very nearly my first, was to design and build a canoe. It turned out great, it took years and was very difficult, and frustrating. I had to do stuff like rebuild my dad's table saw to get it to rip. Then there was the whole design your own boat thing.. All the books at the time said, you could make a canoe for 100 bucks, the cheapest kit was 700. I just couldn't see spending the money. The dominoes from that decision are still falling today...
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