New Oktava MK-012-01

[Jeff Scott]

Maybe it's just me, but I like the presence of the guitar in the first video/recording better. I think there is a more coherent sound to the guitar. The latest recording setup seems too unnaturally wide with a fake kind of stereo width to it.

Nice playing BTW.

[Rick Shepherd]

Sorry, I had to edit my initial post, because I thought I had something of value to add, but I really don't after listening through my headphones.

[Fichtezc]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

It looks like the mics are positioned pretty far away, which may account for the lack of the low end. Perhaps it is because you don't pick very hard with your thumb or use a thumb pick, but I don't hear much in the low end.

The mics are actually about 6 inches away, though it's hard to tell with the video. Just nowhere near the sound hole. They get super boomy to my ears if I bring them in any more. That being said, there isn't much low end to begin with either. I'm struggling pretty badly to get a sound I like.

[Rick Shepherd]

You are right, it is very hard to tell how far away the are. I really can't fault the mics at all. Sometimes the percussive style is a bit harsh to listen to. In this piece, you transition from low volume fingerstyle to a semi hard strum, then into the percussion, which creates a challenge when it comes to recording. Maybe some compression might help.

[Fichtezc]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

You are right, it is very hard to tell how far away the are. I really can't fault the mics at all. Sometimes the percussive style is a bit harsh to listen to. In this piece, you transition from low volume fingerstyle to a semi hard strum, then into the percussion, which creates a challenge when it comes to recording. Maybe some compression might help.

To be honest I just hit record and started playing -definitely not a prepared piece. I usually have a lot more even dynamics when I'm performing a piece, this was truly just a "test" so no reverb, compression, EQ, etc. Though I think I did put a high pass at like 70Hz. My neighbor's AC rumbles. It definitely isn't the fault of the mics, but I have yet to get a sound I'm happy with on them aside from this: http://www.zachfichterstudios.com/media/zach/Hallie.mp3

I'm sure it's user error, I'm just struggling with them.

Love your recordings by the way, I'm working on Shenandoah as well. Hopefully I can get clarity on my recordings like that some day.

[Rick Shepherd]

Thanks!

That recording sounds pretty good!

What does the rest of your recording chain consist of?

Have you experimented with room sound treatments at all?

[Fichtezc]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

Thanks!

That recording sounds pretty good!

What does the rest of your recording chain consist of?

Have you experimented with room sound treatments at all?

It's gettin there, still not what I want though! Practice, practice, practice. I use the Oktava's through Mogami gold cables into a Presonus firestudio project into Logic Pro. I've experimented with treatment but I record in so many different places I largely have to ignore it. I know I shouldn't let it slip under the radar but treatment (aside from blankets set up on stands) isn't really an option at the moment.

[Fran Guidry]

Zach, since you're experiencing frustration working the mics so close, perhaps consider moving them back. I've been having what I consider good luck at between 18" and 24" in an approximation of an ORTF array. That's placing the two mics so they are at a 110 degree angle, with the capsules 17 cm apart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique

Basically, think of yourself as miking the space rather than miking the instrument. Doug Young recommends moving the mics up so they're even with the top edge of the guitar, in order to avoid soundhole blast.

Have we discussed tracking levels? There's still a world of bad advice bouncing around that suggests you should track as hot as possible, "use all the bits," etc. But the sweet spot for recording gear is around the old 0 dBVU on tape machines, which translates to around -18 dBFS on a digital system. This is where your average level should sit, with peaks up to -6 or so. Then use mixing and mastering tricks to get the levels up if needed for release.

Before I learned this trick recording was extremely frustrating. This more relaxed level of tracking goes very nicely with a more distant mic location as well.

Fran

[Fichtezc]

My room is REALLY bad but I'll give it a shot. I used to get really great results with ORTF flush with the bottom of the guitar instead of the top to avoid the blast (and get out of the way of the camera) but the room I used it in sounded really good.

I do CRANK my pres though, something I heard about, you guessed it, using all the bits. I'll try backing them off. I'm really looking for a big sound though, and not necessarily natural. I want that massive fingerstyle sound.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Fich,

Try pointing one mic straight down towards the floor.

Position it 3-4 inches off the guitar where the neck joins the bridge.

If you need more LF, angle the mic a bit toward the face of the guitar until the LF fills in.

Season to taste.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Ty,
Okay.........I'll bite: Where does "....the neck joins the bridge" location actually exist?

I'm sure you were thinking of two disparate things..........

Regards,
Howard

[Ty Ford]

not enough coffee that day.

Replace with "neck joins the body."

Getting a HUGE ACOUSTIC GUITAR SOUND means different things to different people. To experience HUGE, most folks need a huge space in which to hear the sound. Use too much reverb and you just sound far away. That can sound huge, but it's not very IN YOUR FACE.

If you want IN YOUR FACE HUGE, in addition to reverb, you typically need to add compression and limiting to the stereo mix.

The arrangement has an awful lot to do with HUGE ACOUSTIC GUITAR SOUND. The more constantly you play, the less space there is, so there' s less space to tell the ear how HUGE things are.

Then there's the Electric Light Orchestra HUGENESS. That's the result of the arrangement plus doubletracking, reverb, limiting and compression until you reach WALL OF SOUND.

z'at help?

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Fichtezc]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

not enough coffee that day.

Replace with "neck joins the body."

Getting a HUGE ACOUSTIC GUITAR SOUND means different things to different people. To experience HUGE, most folks need a huge space in which to hear the sound. Use too much reverb and you just sound far away. That can sound huge, but it's not very IN YOUR FACE.

If you want IN YOUR FACE HUGE, in addition to reverb, you typically need to add compression and limiting to the stereo mix.

The arrangement has an awful lot to do with HUGE ACOUSTIC GUITAR SOUND. The more constantly you play, the less space there is, so there' s less space to tell the ear how HUGE things are.

Then there's the Electric Light Orchestra HUGENESS. That's the result of the arrangement plus doubletracking, reverb, limiting and compression until you reach WALL OF SOUND.

z'at help?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Very true, I'm looking for *this* kinda huge: http://www.antoinedufourmusic.com/index.php?mod=music

Anything off of convergences is the sound I'm going for. Though it does sound a little too compressed for my taste, I guess that's how you get the sound?

[Ty Ford]

Fascinating.

Multiple attempts to that link crash my browser. (safari)

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Fichtezc]

Oh no,
sorry about that! Try this? Works for me: http://www.antoinedufourmusic.com/

Then go to music and listen to anything off of convergences.

EDIT:

I have no idea what I'm doing but..... 4 tracks, high compression ratio, large reverb but far back in the mix: https://soundcloud.com/fichtezc/huge-test Sorry for the bad playing!

[anton]

I thought both video clips sounded very good, nice natural sound. I need to try that positioning with my line audio cm3's.


Anton