How to get more bass out of a Taylor Grand Auditorium?

[sakar12]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

You’re welcome. Either putting an armrest on the guitar or else developing the technique to keep your arm off the top while you play will do far more to bring out the bass response than any string alloy change possibly could.


whm

How well do these work with tight cases? I've been thinking of putting one on my Lowden.

[tsatt]

Trade it for a revoiced 714 or 814. You'll see them with the combination of a white nut (as opposed to black) and the slanted back bracing in the soundhole. You'll hear the low end when you play it. They are the best guitars Taylor has ever made if that thumpy Martin bass is what you're after in the Taylor sound.

[Wade Hampton]

After I suggested putting a John Pearse armrest on the guitar, Sakar asked:

Originally Posted by sakar12

How well do these work with tight cases? I've been thinking of putting one on my Lowden.

Sakar, it'll depend on how tight the case is, and where it's tight. If the case is tight along the sides and the guitar has to be sort of wiggled into place, that's not a concern. It's the lid that's the issue.

John designed the armrests to be no thicker than the bridge on a standard six string acoustic guitar, so usually there's no problem. The only real concern is if the lid has to be pressed down for the case to be latched.

I have had this issue arise on a couple of guitars where I was using cases for them that weren't originally designed to fit those guitars. On one occasion, it was when I got one of the very first Tacoma EM-9 guitars that got built.

I had had some input into that model when it was being developed, and Terry Atkins, who was the Tacoma Guitar Company's marketing and PR guy, cherry-picked one of the first EM-9's off the production line to send to me. I wanted a hard case for it, but Tacoma hadn't yet received any dedicated hardshell cases for that model. (The first EM-9's shipped from the factory in gigbags.) So Terry squeezed the EM-9 he'd picked out for me into a case meant for a Tacoma Chief and sent it to me in that.

Tacoma EM-9



Tacoma Chief

The problem was that the Chief is shallower than the EM-9, and it was really too tight a fit even before I put on the armrest. So to test it what I did was use some low tack painter's blue masking tape to hold the armrest in place on the guitar's top, put the guitar in the case, and then closed the lid.

NOT a great idea. I could get the lid closed, but had to press down on it to get the case latched. It wasn't going to hurt the guitar doing that once, but the danger was if I used the case for the guitar like that and the case should get a sharp blow to the top, it could damage the instrument.

Fortunately, I had an empty OM case, brand new, that I had picked up on sale at a music store a few weeks before on the theory that "you never know when one of these might come in handy." I transferred the guitar to the OM case and it fit perfectly. So I went ahead and attached the armrest to the top of the EM-9, carried the instrument in the OM case, and sold the brand new Tacoma Chief case to someone who wanted one.

So what I suggest you do, Sakar, is get the armrest, temporarily position it in place with some low tack masking tape, then see if the lid of your Lowden's case will close easily. If it does, then you have no worries.

If the armrest won't allow the lid to close easily, so long as the adhesive strip covering is still in place the armrest is returnable.

I should mention that one of the musicians that I play with on a weekly basis has a Lowden jumbo, and has a Pearse armrest on it. He has the original case for the guitar, and has no trouble at all with the lid of the case closing.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[sakar12]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

After I suggested putting a John Pearse armrest on the guitar, Sakar asked:



Sakar, it'll depend on how tight the case is, and where it's tight. If the case is tight along the sides and the guitar has to be sort of wiggled into place, that's not a concern. It's the lid that's the issue.

John designed the armrests to be no thicker than the bridge on a standard six string acoustic guitar, so usually there's no problem. The only real concern is if the lid has to be pressed down for the case to be latched.

I have had this issue arise on a couple of guitars where I was using cases for them that weren't originally designed to fit those guitars. On one occasion, it was when I got one of the very first Tacoma EM-9 guitars that got built.

I had had some input into that model when it was being developed, and Terry Atkins, who was the Tacoma Guitar Company's marketing and PR guy, cherry-picked one of the first EM-9's off the production line to send to me. I wanted a hard case for it, but Tacoma hadn't yet received any dedicated hardshell cases for that model. (The first EM-9's shipped from the factory in gigbags.) So Terry squeezed the EM-9 he'd picked out for me into a case meant for a Tacoma Chief and sent it to me in that.

Tacoma EM-9



Tacoma Chief

The problem was that the Chief is shallower than the EM-9, and it was really too tight a fit even before I put on the armrest. So to test it what I did was use some low tack painter's blue masking tape to hold the armrest in place on the guitar's top, put the guitar in the case, and then closed the lid.

NOT a great idea. I could get the lid closed, but had to press down on it to get the case latched. It wasn't going to hurt the guitar doing that once, but the danger was if I used the case for the guitar like that and the case should get a sharp blow to the top, it could damage the instrument.

Fortunately, I had an empty OM case, brand new, that I had picked up on sale at a music store a few weeks before on the theory that "you never know when one of these might come in handy." I transferred the guitar to the OM case and it fit perfectly. So I went ahead and attached the armrest to the top of the EM-9, carried the instrument in the OM case, and sold the brand new Tacoma Chief case to someone who wanted one.

So what I suggest you do, Sakar, is get the armrest, temporarily position it in place with some low tack masking tape, then see if the lid of your Lowden's case will close easily. If it does, then you have no worries.

If the armrest won't allow the lid to close easily, so long as the adhesive strip covering is still in place the armrest is returnable.

I should mention that one of the musicians that I play with on a weekly basis has a Lowden jumbo, and has a Pearse armrest on it. He has the original case for the guitar, and has no trouble at all with the lid of the case closing.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Thank you, Wade! I'll give it a shot and return and report.

[Wade Hampton]

Glad to be of some help.


whm

[wisedennis]

thanks vindibona1 for your advice and good amount of info..

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Aside from a different guitar, I think you're in the right direction. since you seem committed to going with 12's I suggest you try Elixir 12's Phos bronze first. You might find that that's all you need.

I think a bone saddle on a Taylor will rarely do anything but improve the warmth and thickness of the sound. I highly recommend the saddles from macnichol.com . If you have a caliper and can take exact measurements for current saddle height at both E strings and the width of the saddle they will sand the saddle to approximate size and get you close to a drop-in replacement... for $15- including the customization. They are incredible to deal with. Saddle upgrade would be step #2. This has made a huge difference in both my Taylors.

Strings... For more warmth I would recommend Gibson Masterbuilt Phos/Bronze 12's. Gibson has discontinued them but they are identical to one of GHS offerings (regular phos bronze?... someone please confirm).

Don't be afraid to test strings in 4 day increments. You can put them on and take them off and put them back on 2 or 3 times and they'll still sound good if you're careful. The only downside to putting on previously installed strings is that they're a pain to put back on the second and third time. The time invested in string testing in short 4 day spurts is well worth it because you can dial in what you like and then you're set for the life of the guitar- unless your taste in sound changes.

[wisedennis]

I wonder how much % of the tone is "improve-able / upgradable" and how much % are already fixed by the design/structure/model of my Taylor Grand Auditorium?

Thanks

[RalphH]

I'm a bit late to the party, but might be worth ching out this thread and seeing if this issue applies to you, though it probably doesn't, given we're talking about a US made taylor

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=562847

Failing that I would try different brands of string. I really like the Elixr PB 13s on my GS mini, they're just right for it. When I tried D'Darios they were just nasty and jangly. Recently bought a epiphone dred and put Elixr 80/20s on it and it sounded really thick. A set of 80/20 Ernie balls has made a huge improvement. I might actually try some PBs at some point too.

It's also worth looking at different picks. That makes as much difference as the type of wood in my opinion; I like a nice bright sound so I use celluloid picks. I can't stand the sound of a nylon pick, but others obviously like it as they make enough of them.

[DownUpDave]

Originally Posted by wisedennis

I wonder how much % of the tone is "improve-able / upgradable" and how much % are already fixed by the design/structure/model of my Taylor Grand Auditorium?

Thanks

Really and truly it is 95% design/structure/model. You have a Taylor GA in spruce and rosewood it is a bright sounding combo, period. I have a Taylor 512e 12 fret which is warm.....cedar over mahogany is known for that.

I have taken the bright edge off of instruments in two ways. Go up to 13s on the treble side, this makes the biggest difference in taking off the bright brash sound. Try DR Rare mediums. Using a pic of 1.0mm or thicker in a warm sounding material, Dunlop Ultex for a reasonable priced choice.

You will not be able to significantly increase the bass sound of this instrument. But knocking off the real highs might be enough to make you happy, it has with two of my instruments. Strings are cheap go nuts........Good luck.

[jazzguy]

I have owned a number of X14 Taylor guitars. I would always play Elixir lights, but put a medium on the low E. Worked wonders for me.

[silvereagle48]

Buy a Martin

[wisedennis]

Thanks Ralph,

I haven't thought about these, but will try to adjust the saddle

Originally Posted by RalphH

I'm a bit late to the party, but might be worth ching out this thread and seeing if this issue applies to you, though it probably doesn't, given we're talking about a US made taylor

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=562847

Failing that I would try different brands of string. I really like the Elixr PB 13s on my GS mini, they're just right for it. When I tried D'Darios they were just nasty and jangly. Recently bought a epiphone dred and put Elixr 80/20s on it and it sounded really thick. A set of 80/20 Ernie balls has made a huge improvement. I might actually try some PBs at some point too.

It's also worth looking at different picks. That makes as much difference as the type of wood in my opinion; I like a nice bright sound so I use celluloid picks. I can't stand the sound of a nylon pick, but others obviously like it as they make enough of them.

[phavriluk]

We can nibble around the edges of instrument performance by changing strings and saddles and nuts, but I think we can't make an instrument sound much different than it was made to sound. If OP doesn't like the bass output of his guitar, I think buying one that sounds right is going to be a more worthwhile use of time and effort. And if a new guitar has been much changed from its factory-delivered configuration, I think it's going to be harder to put up for adoption.

[Ncbandit]

I had 80/20's on my Eastman E1SS slope shoulder dread and changing to Ernie Ball Earthwood Phosphor Bronze Alloy Medium Light 12 to 54 made a huge difference in the bass response. So much so I was amazed that they made such a huge difference.

Good Luck in your search.

[wisedennis]

Hi AGF fellows and friends,
I have proceeded with some suggestions:

1. I have replaced the Elixir polyweb 80/20 on my Taylor GA with a brand new set of Nanoweb Phosphor Bronze 012 (light string)
2. Replaced the Taylor pins with brand new D’Addario Ebony pin.
3. Lowered the guitar action a little bit after 1&2

Now, the guitar sounds substantially louder, obviously more bass, more punch and more projection.

In terms of playability, I subjectively felt the soundboard is under some sort of higher tension/pull. But with lowering of some action, the playability hasn’t been compromised much.. it’s still beautifully playable.

Thanks for all your input and advice I would post more findings if I notice some or make more changes.

Dennis