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Old 05-21-2010, 12:09 AM
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Default What to do with scales?

After I memorize a scale, what should I be doing with it musically to fully understand its use? It's frustrating to memorize a scale and then pretty much forget about it, because you don't really understand how to use it.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:24 AM
daza152 daza152 is offline
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I agree with you 100% I would like to know to form blues licks but I guess its just up to the individual to create there own, or borrow some from you tube

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Old 05-21-2010, 02:11 AM
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I'd think of scales as being like learning the alphabet. Necessary, but it's a lot the same issue if you stop there: what do you do with those letters? Well, you form words and phrases from them. Think of those kid's letter blocks, that you can line up to form words. Do the same with scales. Take a scale, C major, maybe, and make up little melodies using just those notes. Play a C chord and sing a melodic phrase over it, then see if you can pick out the melody from within the scale pattern you know. Learn a guitar solo you like, and try to figure out where the notes come from; what scales are they drawing from? Try to play as many melodies as you can, within the scale form. Mary Had a Little Lamb, Amazing Grace, stuff like that.

Scales are also simply good for technique, so play them with a metronome, and work on playing faster, cleaner. Play them slow, and work on tone. Play them in rhythms. Play them in patterns CDE, DEF, EFG, etc, or CE,DF,EG,.. Play them with a pick, play them with your fingers, using thumb and index, index and middle, middle and ring, etc. Use hammer-ons and pull-offs. Do them two-handed tapping if you're into that style. This can be endless, and it's all good for technique
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I'd think of scales as being like learning the alphabet. Necessary, but it's a lot the same issue if you stop there: what do you do with those letters? Well, you form words and phrases from them. Think of those kid's letter blocks, that you can line up to form words. Do the same with scales. Take a scale, C major, maybe, and make up little melodies using just those notes. Play a C chord and sing a melodic phrase over it, then see if you can pick out the melody from within the scale pattern you know. Learn a guitar solo you like, and try to figure out where the notes come from; what scales are they drawing from? Try to play as many melodies as you can, within the scale form. Mary Had a Little Lamb, Amazing Grace, stuff like that.

Scales are also simply good for technique, so play them with a metronome, and work on playing faster, cleaner. Play them slow, and work on tone. Play them in rhythms. Play them in patterns CDE, DEF, EFG, etc, or CE,DF,EG,.. Play them with a pick, play them with your fingers, using thumb and index, index and middle, middle and ring, etc. Use hammer-ons and pull-offs. Do them two-handed tapping if you're into that style. This can be endless, and it's all good for technique
Thanks, Doug. This helps to make my objectives a lot more clear. I'm hoping that by understanding scales better, it would aid me in coming up with creative little ornamentations for fingerstyle compositions that actually serve the music as oppose to merely sound "cool".
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:22 AM
Rick Jones Rick Jones is offline
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The more you play scales, in various positions and over say two, three, four, five strings, and familiarise the patterns, the more you will feel where the appropriate notes are when "on autopilot" in a song eventually.
Also the tone and semi tone parts will start to become easy patterns to find your way around in given keys.

It helps to lightly sing the notes as you drill the scales, it gives your brain the memory "that sound/note is just there", and you'll eventually find that you'll be able to pick out basic single note melodies you hear without thinking so hard.
Also, if you get used to thinking in keys and scale degrees, all the chords unlock, so can begin to understand extensions etc much easier, it's really easy to overcomplicate it in your mind...yet somehow when you think of it as just a scale it all makes sense.

Likewise modes are just the notes of the scale started on a different interval, and learning them becomes very easy once you have the feel for scales, but they can allow you to find very interesting sounds against whatever key you are in.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:55 AM
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After I memorize a scale, what should I be doing with it musically to fully understand its use? It's frustrating to memorize a scale and then pretty much forget about it, because you don't really understand how to use it.

What scale?

What do you mean by "memorizing" it? In other words "what" is it that you have committed to memory?
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usb_chord View Post
Thanks, Doug. This helps to make my objectives a lot more clear. I'm hoping that by understanding scales better, it would aid me in coming up with creative little ornamentations for fingerstyle compositions that actually serve the music as oppose to merely sound "cool".
For fingerstyle, you might also try adding in bass notes. In standard tuning, maybe use the key of A, so you have A, D, E as bass notes on open strings, then try to make up melodies using the scales, while playing the bass notes against them. You'd be half-way to a new composition, while practicing scales at the same time!
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
After I memorize a scale, what should I be doing with it musically to fully understand its use? It's frustrating to memorize a scale and then pretty much forget about it, because you don't really understand how to use it.

What scale?

What do you mean by "memorizing" it? In other words "what" is it that you have committed to memory?
Meaning I've learned (for example..) the C major scale in the first position and I'm able to play from low to high and high to low between the 1st and 3rd fret.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:57 AM
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Meaning I've learned (for example..) the C major scale in the first position and I'm able to play from low to high and high to low between the 1st and 3rd fret.

OK, C major, that answers the first part. For the second part, the C major scale (1st position) contains the note that is made by playing the d string at the second fret. Do you have a name for this note that you have memorized? If so, what is it's name you have memorized?
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
Meaning I've learned (for example..) the C major scale in the first position and I'm able to play from low to high and high to low between the 1st and 3rd fret.

OK, C major, that answers the first part. For the second part, the C major scale (1st position) contains the note that is made by playing the d string at the second fret. Do you have a name for this note that you have memorized? If so, what is it's name you have memorized?
I would identify that note as an E and the 3rd scale degree of the C major scale. The problem is, I haven't been sure what to do with that information.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:37 AM
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Well said Doug.

I think some basic theory might help too. Learning how the scale steps come together to create chords, basic chord progressions, the circle of 5ths, etc.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:46 AM
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I would identify that note as an E and the 3rd scale degree of the C major scale.

That seems a bit wordy. So you say the E is a 3, the F is 4 and the G is a 5, right?

If you drop the letters and the "scale-degree" terminology, can you play the 1 through 7 in the key of G? Key of A? Key of D? and so on?

Do you know the difference between a half step and a whole step?
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
I would identify that note as an E and the 3rd scale degree of the C major scale.

That seems a bit wordy. So you say the E is a 3, the F is 4 and the G is a 5, right?

If you drop the letters and the "scale-degree" terminology, can you play the 1 through 7 in the key of G? Key of A? Key of D? and so on?

Do you know the difference between a half step and a whole step?
That feels a lot less stressful. (Yeah, I know the difference between "W" and "H")
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:43 PM
daza152 daza152 is offline
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How many scales are there for playing the blues? I know the Em pentatonic and thats it.....sorry if I'm hi-jacking your thread, just seems to be alot of knowledgable people on the subjet here.

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Old 05-21-2010, 12:50 PM
Allman_Fan Allman_Fan is offline
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About the scales

Can you play the major scale in the key of E, all on the lowest e string?

Does the following make sense to you?
1 - whole step – 2 - whole step – 3 - half step – 4 - whole step – 5 - whole step – 6 - whole step – 7 - half step – 1

About you
Do you take lessons?
Are you learning to read music (treble/bass clef, key/time signature stuff)?
What are you goals for music/guitar?

General
You play guitar with your hands; you play music with your ears. Your mind is the connection between the two, and scales is one of the tools you use to form that connection.

When you hear a loud burst of noise coming behind you, you instinctively flinch with respect to that direction. One of the goals of learning scales is to instinctively (or almost) associate a hand(s) positioning when you hear a grouping of notes (either as a chord or melody).

Scales are the basis of "interval training."
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