The 'Ups And Downs' Of Grover Rotomatic Tuners

[KenL]

They are the F-150 of tuners. They generally do the job, and there's a million of them out there.

I like 'em okay.

[rmp]

Older ones were 100% superior to what's being sold now.

Sorry to say, the outsourcing of the Manfacturing of things like this to low-cost contracts shows.

[donlyn]

The 'Ups And Downs' Of Grover Rotomatic Tuners

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

There are knockoffs, that look like the real thing.
I have been liking the 18:1 Milk Bottles.
When I choose to replace closed back tuners.
9 out of 10 times these are what I'll use.
I did just replace tuners on my Guild 2512, with Gotoh 510's
Tuners cost me near as much as the guitar.
I'm sure the originals were Ping, Schaller knockoffs.
Regardless of which tuner you choose. Choose quality, Buy from reputable dealer.
If buying a cheaper overseas version of a guitar.
Chances are, hardware is cheaper knockoff as well.

> "I did just replace tuners on my Guild 2512, with Gotoh 510's"

I also have a Guild F-2512, purchased on sale late summer 2022. I actually love the sound it makes, and the factory set-up works great for me. But I was annoyed at the tuners for quite awhile, and bought a set of Grover minis to replace them. Turns out, I think the issue was a bad stringing job from the factory. Somehow I had gotten 'used' to the idiosyncrasies of the stock tuners and never did go the replacement route.

The stock tuners actually hold tune quite well, especially with the atmospheric fluctuations here in Eastern Massachsetts. Picked it up yesterday for the first time in nearly a week, and the darn thing was still playable and in tune with itself. Just each string maybe a few cents flat of 'standard' intervals, at 'D#' cause I tune down a semi-tone. Old habits die hard. Never did re-tune it, just played it and had a gas. Good thing my "Yellow Submarine" doesn't need gas. Just some 'elbow grease'.


So I never did the swap. Maybe I just scared the existing tuners into getting their act together 'or-else'. Maybe the strings just needed to stretch out a bit. Believe that Guild uses D'Addario strings on their guitars. Maybe I just got lazy. Maybe like many people, I just like having the original tuners. Though I did put 'Schallers on an EKO Ranger XII 12 string back in the day. Just for fun. Probably did cost more than the guitar. I kinda dis-remember.

In any event, those 2512 faux Grovers are on notice. Like the guy said in the movie (cue J.E.J. tone), "You have failed me for the last time".

Be well and play well,

Don
.

[grandstick]

Hipshot tuners are made in Interlaken NY. - unless you’re talking about the “licensed by” versions (which were originally unauthorized bootlegs, later brought to heel through licensing arrangements).

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

What's your Grover Rotomatic tuner experiences?

2012 Epiphone EJ-200 - the factory (Indonesia) fitted gold Grovers feel absolutely superb!

I've had a made in Indonesia Mandobird VIII with Grover mini Rotomatic tuning machines for the last several years. Never any problems.

I replaced the no-name made in China tuning machines on my 10 string mandola with a set of Grover mini Rotomatic's and they're great. Likewise I replaced the no-name made in China tuning machines on my 10 string mandocello with Grover "milk bottle" Rotomatic's and they're great too.

I think my F4 octave mandolin has 4-on-a-plate Grover's too, but they're open gear. No troubles for the past 12 years there.

[hubcapsc]

Originally Posted by bluesfreek

Jimmy Page's 1959 Les Paul.

Martin switched from waffle-backs to rotomatics on d-28s in 57. I asked Martin
about my 57 and they said it came with rotomatics. It has deluxe style tuners
on it now, it looks like they've always been there. D-18s had this kind of tuner
in the years around 1960.



-Mike

[davidd]

Originally Posted by jspe

I've always hated Grovers.
This goes back to seeing a friends' beautiful Les Paul fall less than 2 feet on to a hard floor in its case, and the Grover-equipped headstock snapped clean off.
Not much later, another person I knew who had an SG suffered a similar fall with a klusen-churchkey tuner set, and it had no damage.
I saw a friend, and everyone else present, wince as a brand new, newly ordered Guild came out of the shipping box with...you guessed it.
I can site numerous other examples just off-hand from knowing local guitar techs and players.
Any Grovers that come in to my house are summarily removed and replaced with....something much lighter....

A Les Paul headstock break has zero to do with Grovers.

[HogsNRoses]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

.

Now it's also worth noting I've had Grover mini-Rotomatics on 3 different 12-string guitars.
- 1999 Taylor 355
- 2008 Guild F-412
- 2011 Maton Country Jumbo

... and they've all been excellent.

When they're good they're good.
When they're bad they're terrible.

My J45 12 string came with those 14:1 mini-Rotomatics, and I found them hard to work with. The guitar was hard to tune, didn’t stay in tune, and the strings bound in the nut. I replaced them with Schaller M6-180 with medium-length posts. They work flawlessly. The guitar is easy to tune with no backlash or binding, and it stays in tune.

I had gold mini-Rotomatics on another guitar that worked well, though.

I think it’s crucial to get the right length of post, and some tuner problems come from a post that is too long or too short. Schaller has three standard lengths, for example. Short works on electrics with a thin headstock (NOT a Rickenbacker) and medium on Gibson acoustics. Furch headstocks are thicker (mine anyways), so Furch uses the long posts. They are too long, IMHO, so the Schallers don’t work as well. They are hard to turn and the string doesn’t wind as nicely.

I really like the 300 series Gotohs, even more than the 510s. Unfortunately, Gotoh doesn’t make a drop-in replacement for the mini-Rotomatic or Schaller M6-180.

[Peter Z]

I have them on a few guitars and think they are excellent. Just today I changed string on my Hummingbird and thought the Rotomatics are better then the Waverly of my D-18 MD.

[LFL Steve]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

From what I've heard, these days all the tuners except Schallers are made by Ping in China. Interestingly enough, I've had Grovers from multiple eras from 1974 to 2001 to 2005 to 2018 haven't had a single failure. It used to be de rigueur to change your tuners to Grovers or no-one thought you were "professional."

Bob

Yes, in the early '70s I remember Grover was the premium upgrade. I think what they're doing now is simply trading on the good name previously built with high quality. As we've seen from several posts though, it's starting to fade. If you don't have the memory of what they were and their premium position in the market 50 years ago, the cachet is lost.

My 1962 Gretsch, which I got in the mid-80s, had the original Grover Imperials. They eventually became too gritty to keep. Current Imperials don't have the same appearance on the casing, but the buttons look the same. At the time, around 25 years ago, I already knew that Grovers weren't what they once had been, but I wanted to preserve the vibe on the Gretsch and so installed a new set of Imperials. I'll get the chance to make this decision again: my SJ200's Rotomatics are developing ever-more-intolerable backlash and roughness. I'm thinking Sperzels, but I may start another thread so as not to hijack this one.

My current thinking on Grovers is that I'd only put them on a guitar that seems like it's "supposed" to have them. I've had good luck with some, but among today's selection they do not stand out.

[DM3MD]

My experience with Grovers:

1. Zero failures
2. Gold plating doesn’t like sweaty gig hands
3. Fairly heavy on the headstock

The BIGGEST issue I’ve had with them is keeping the tuner buttons tight.

[Bluenose]

I took the stock tuners off my Eastman E10SS (Pings I think) and dropped in a set of Rotomatics. A big upgrade IMO. The Grovers are smooth as silk.

[rstaight]

Ping has a decent set of golf club.

[drive-south]

I have Rotomatics on 5 Guild acoustics, all built in Westerly RI during the he 80's and 90's. I also have mini Rotos on a Gibson J185-12. My 2016 Les Paul Std has Grover Rotomatic locking tuners.

I generally prefer Kluson style tuners on my Gibsons. I can't imagine a Guild acoustics with anything but Rotos.

[rollypolly]

I don’t like Grover rotomatics. I don’t like the way they look, I don’t like the way they’re heavy, and the ones I’ve encountered felt sloppy. I’d much rather have Gotoh whether closed or open back.