1967 Jose Ramirez 1A

pryme_thyme · #1 12-18-2018, 03:21 PM

Hello all, new to the forum and looking to learn more about my late father's passion... or obsession.

My father owned a recording studio and on his passing everything went to the estate, I was able to keep one guitar from auction, one of his favourites.

Hoping someone can shed some light on this guitar. I intend to hold on to it though I would love to know more about what I actually have and possibly what to insure it for, value wise.

I have done plenty of research and attempted to contact the company but I have not found any concrete information about this exact year.

Guitar is stampted 'MT' and is number 2012. Appears from laymans eyes to be in excellent condition, minimal wear.

Thank you very much in advance, if only I shared my interest before he passed.

(I have photos, though unsure how to post :S)

Kerbie · #2 12-18-2018, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pryme_thyme

(I have photos, though unsure how to post :S)

Welcome to the forum! For pictures, take a look at this thread. There is a ton of help in sticky threads at the tops of many subforums... and in the FAQs. Take a look around and enjoy!

rick-slo · #3 12-18-2018, 03:39 PM

Hmm, I had a 1968 Ramirez 1-A, MT marked (Mariano Tezanos, highly esteemed) guitar for decades. Sold it a few years back to a concert guitarist. Can't be too many of those floating about. Check with classical guitar dealers about approximate value.

P.S. Do you plan to play it or just let it sit in the case?

pryme_thyme · #4 12-18-2018, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pryme_thyme

Hello all, new to the forum and looking to learn more about my late father's passion... or obsession.

My father owned a recording studio and on his passing everything went to the estate, I was able to keep one guitar from auction, one of his favourites.

Hoping someone can shed some light on this guitar. I intend to hold on to it though I would love to know more about what I actually have and possibly what to insure it for, value wise.

I have done plenty of research and attempted to contact the company but I have not found any concrete information about this exact year.

Guitar is stampted 'MT' and is number 2012. Appears from laymans eyes to be in excellent condition, minimal wear.

Thank you very much in advance, if only I shared my interest before he passed.

(I have photos, though unsure how to post :S)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Hmm, I had a 1968 Ramirez 1-A, MT marked (Mariano Tezanos, highly esteemed) guitar for decades. Sold it a few years back to a concert guitarist. Can't be too many of those floating about. You should have no problem selling it if that is your intention.

Thanks so much, very interesting.

I honestly have no idea what to do with it. My thoughts were to keep it and learn to play but the more I read the more I am weary about immature hands touching it haha

nikpearson · #5 12-18-2018, 10:05 PM

You have a little piece of classical guitar history in your possession.

The instrument was made in what many consider to be the Ramirez golden era, where Jose Ramirez III was in charge and pioneered a number of significant changes, not least the use of cedar as a soundboard wood. As a previous poster stated the initials MT stamped on the slipper are those of Mariano Tezanos one of the most respected builders at the Ramirez shop. This practice ceased in the late 1960s. 1A designates a first class concert instrument, not to be confused with the student instruments made by, or on behalf of, Ramirez. Soundboards where most commonly cedar by this time, coupled with Indian or Brazilain rosewood back and sides. Spruce-topped guitars were also offered. Necks always used Spanish cedar (not the same wood species as the top) coupled with ebony fingerboards.

Most guitars from this period have a longer 664mm scale length intended to increase volume. This can make the instruments harder to play especially for those with smaller hands. It’s not uncommon for guitars of this period to have high playing action, possibly due to the increased string tension from the longer scale length. The neck construction is a traditional Spanish heel where the neck is built into the guitar body on a solera. A neck reset isn’t an option as it would be with a dovetail joint, but there are alternative ways of improving playability which involve removing the fingerboard and adding material underneath.

Depending on the condition of the guitar, playability, and whether the back and sides are Brazilian or Indian rosewood, I’d guess the value between £3000 and £6000.

For many years I played a 1962 Ramirez MT in Spruce/Brazilian, only selling it in 2017 after building a classical guitar with a shorter scale length and narrower neck better suited to my small hands. The Ramirez was for sure a better sounding guitar, but the money was welcome at the the time and I don’t miss those finger stretches!

Please do post some pictures. Members will be able to help identify the woods used in construction and just enjoy looking at what must be a very lovely instrument, and one with particular resonance for you.

Tomo · #6 12-19-2018, 05:31 AM

I would suggest that you also learn about humidification if you are unfamiliar with taking care of a guitar. Especially at this time of the year if you live in a colder climate.

As far as value you might want to check with 12th Fret in Toronto. They seem to always have a 1a for sale and sometimes several at a time. Classical Guitars International might also be able to help.

The is also a website called delcamp.net that can provide you more information about classical guitars than you could ever use.

pryme_thyme · #7 12-19-2018, 09:21 AM

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, this is very interesting!!! Truly appreciated.

Thank you also about the humidity tip, I will look into that.

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/.../144926429.jpg

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/.../144926493.jpg

http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/.../144926493.jpg

http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pa...26459.jpg.html

http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pa...26459.jpg.html

http://s1101.photobucket.com/user/pa...26459.jpg.html

rick-slo · #8 12-19-2018, 09:32 AM

Cedar and very nice Brazilian rosewood. Congrats.

pryme_thyme · #9 12-19-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Cedar and very nice Brazilian rosewood. Congrats.

Thanks so much! I am jealous you know this by looking, I clearly have alot to learn!

rick-slo · #10 12-19-2018, 10:11 AM

Some top dings and probably a crack in side. Have a guitar tech check it out.
Nice pictures of horse and young lady - not sure you want those to be posted here.

nikpearson · #11 12-19-2018, 04:28 PM

But the top could be cedar or tight-grained spruce. The finish Ramirez used during this period darkens considerably with age. My spruce topped instrument looked pretty much the same colour as yours. The dings in the top where the finish is missing look a lot lighter so, it may in fact be spruce.

The Brazilian rosewood is very nice, wood of that quality hasn’t been available for many years. The crack in the side can be repaired to be nearly invisible by a good luthier. Brazilian rosewood is prone to cracking. Tuners are the original Fusteros - I was surprised how smooth these were on my instrument.

I’d suggest getting the guitar checked out by a good luthier experienced at working with classical guitars. They should be able to give you advice on repairing the crack in the side and identify any other work that’s needed. The finish on these instruments is specific to the Ramirez shop, being prone to taking fingerprints and hazing. It cleans up well with burnishing liquid but this is probably best done by an experienced hand.

An earlier post mentioned learning about humidity. This is is good advice for any high-end guitar made from thin plates of solid wood. A starting point is to equate the guitar to your skin. Pleasant relative humidity for people is in the 40-60% range. Lower than 40% skin will tend to dry out; higher than 60% can feel damp. If you keep your guitar in this range it should be fine. Depending on your climate and winter temperatures you may need to humidity the instrument in winter and/or dehumidify in summer. Low humidity is more likely to cause damage to the instrument in the form of cracks. Keeping the guitar in a good case reduces these risks.

Have fun with this lovely instrument.

pryme_thyme · #12 12-20-2018, 10:41 AM

Wow, what incredible information, thank you so much!

I wondered about the crack... it looks smaller in person for some odd reason. I wasn't entirely sure what it was.

Yes, it is very fingerprinty. Difficult not to clean with my obsessive cleanliness... something that I actually shouldn't use Lysol wipes on

I spoke to a local shop here, though I hesitate since I am not sure how 'good' they are.
Any advice how to pick a good luthier?

TYIA

Gitfiddlemann · #13 12-20-2018, 11:44 AM

Congrats. Beautiful guitar. These are wonderful sounding instruments, albeit challenging to play well, and ideally suited for the serious classical player/performer.
I owned a '69 1a for many years and am familiar with them. (Although not a pro and never ever serious...

)

Quote:

Any advice how to pick a good luthier?

Which part of the country/world are you in?

Completely agree with the advice to put this guitar in the hands of a luthier or experienced tech.
The sides of these guitars are not all brazilian rosewood. There is a lamination layer of wood on the inside, usually maple. That's what my 69 had. I suspect yours might have the same thing.
So, that might add some complexity to fixing the side crack correctly, if it goes through. You need expertise for sure if you want to get this right.

smwink · #14 12-20-2018, 11:58 AM

Lovely guitar! I had a 1968 1A MT, a great guitar. The interior side lining is generally cypress, and it should add stability to the crack you're seeing on the exterior. Cracks are usually repairable and not a major issue, but you definitely want this in the hands of someone who knows vintage classical guitars. Do let us know your general location, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of good recommendations. If you're looking to insure it, you will likely need a current valuation, so another reason to speak with a qualified luthier.

I also agree regarding humidification, especially in the winter. The D'Addario Humidipak system is a good option for relatively low maintenance, especially since it sounds like you'll be keeping this stored in the case and not taking out to play a lot right now.

pryme_thyme · #15 12-21-2018, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smwink

Lovely guitar! I had a 1968 1A MT, a great guitar. The interior side lining is generally cypress, and it should add stability to the crack you're seeing on the exterior. Cracks are usually repairable and not a major issue, but you definitely want this in the hands of someone who knows vintage classical guitars. Do let us know your general location, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of good recommendations. If you're looking to insure it, you will likely need a current valuation, so another reason to speak with a qualified luthier.

I also agree regarding humidification, especially in the winter. The D'Addario Humidipak system is a good option for relatively low maintenance, especially since it sounds like you'll be keeping this stored in the case and not taking out to play a lot right now.

Thank you all again!

Great advice on this forum.

I am in Southeastern Ontario, Kingston area specifically